mix
Journeyman
Posts: 136
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Post by mix on May 6, 2009 14:12:04 GMT
Its no secret that the Tull album Catfish Rising isn't favoured too hot!
But I put it to you that Catfish Rising was the last great Tull album.
The musicianship and arrangements on this album is first class Tull. The sound, production and mixing is in my opinion the finest of all Tull's albums. As for the songs, I think there are some real gems. The mix of rock, blues and folk dominates this album.
More importantly, and the reason why I say it was the last great Tull album is the energy. Ian is on top form. Martin is flying, Peggy is tight and Doane is at his best.
There's plenty of humour too and this was the last batch of material that pushed Ian's voice. Everything since has been limited.
Catfish Rising, give it another spin.
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quizzkid
Master Craftsman
Spin me back down the years...
Posts: 297
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Post by quizzkid on May 6, 2009 15:12:31 GMT
Its no secret that the Tull album Catfish Rising isn't favoured too hot! But I put it to you that Catfish Rising was the last great Tull album. The musicianship and arrangements on this album is first class Tull. The sound, production and mixing is in my opinion the finest of all Tull's albums. As for the songs, I think there are some real gems. The mix of rock, blues and folk dominates this album. More importantly, and the reason why I say it was the last great Tull album is the energy. Ian is on top form. Martin is flying, Peggy is tight and Doane is at his best. There's plenty of humour too and this was the last batch of material that pushed Ian's voice. Everything since has been limited. Catfish Rising, give it another spin. Hi Mix, I have to agree, it is a very under-rated album in my opinion, a pretty good collection of songs, well played, my only gripe would be with White Innocence, which I skip most of the time. It was also a pretty good stageshow.
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mix
Journeyman
Posts: 136
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Post by mix on May 6, 2009 16:51:01 GMT
Yeah White innocents I do like the dangerous lyrics though ---------------------------------------------- She drifted from some minor festival. Didn't look like any summer of love: Just a thousand weekend warriors in a muddy field. She was the hand to fit my glove. Funny thing, the innocence of the lonely. Funny thing, the charm of the young. See how she moves just like two angels (in white innocence). Yet one of them is on the run. The other's tapping at my car window And I'm squinting through the sun Trying to see if she's some child of the nineties: Or just another dangerous fantasy of mine. Yeah. white innocence. She was white innocence. A perfect hole was in her stocking: It made a perfect window to her heart. I could have moved among her waterfalls: Her misty curtains drawn apart. Did she see warm safety in my numbers To want to hitch a ride this way? Felt like I was taking her to market now To be sold as the last lot of the day. Funny thing, the distance of the lonely. Funny thing, the charm of the young. White innocence. She pressed the button, lowered the window: Let her hand trail in the slipstream of the night. A frost from nowhere seemed to lick her fingers: I could have warmed them, but the moment wasn't right. Obvious, she was headed nowhere special: Yes, well it was even obvious to me. I was doing some, some watching, some waiting: She'd been here before, most definitely. There was the promise of early bed-time. There was the promise of heaven on earth. Think I was sending out low-voltage electricity: Played it right down for what it was worth. She turned and looked at me in white innocence And with the clearest eyes of forever grey She rested one small hand for a second on my knee: I stopped the car. she walked away. Funny thing, the wisdom of the lonely. Funny thing, the charm of the young. Away you go now. White innocence. ------------------------------------------
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Post by steelmonkey on May 6, 2009 17:01:16 GMT
Although I have often trashed the fish...I do agree that it has great moments...when it was new, i really liked it...but it somehow faded on me...I loved White Innocence for a few months...and then started thinking of it as a failed attempt to imitate Budapest...many of the other songs also faded...tall thin girl, this is not love and the goofy songs: corners and gold tipped cane...just didn't hold up after the first few hundred listens ( hey, we're Tullies here, aren't we?). The only songs that still sound fresh and strong now are Jesus and Rocks...Sparrow is OK...just OK. The tour was strong...but not as strong as Rock Island. What's wrong with Dot Com? A few toss aways...but to my ears, more good songs and longer lasting.
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Post by rockisland on May 6, 2009 20:16:15 GMT
I have always liked the album Catfish Rising. It is great! I love White Innocence, but not the best song off the album. Whereas Rocks on the Road is just amazing!
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Post by steelmonkey on May 6, 2009 21:41:22 GMT
yeah...Ian out-Willie nelsons Willie nelson on Rocks on the Road...the video proves it!
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Post by TM on May 7, 2009 15:05:01 GMT
Hey Mix, I agree with you. It's no doubt my favorite Tull record of the 90's. The mixing and production are great like you mention, but on a broader scale, Ian still had the voice and the image of a still-relevant rocker. I think that was lost with Roots to Branches. I was just listening to Rocks on the Road and couldn't help but imagine how Ian would have to sing that song now. Not to hijack the thread but I've been watching some of the more recent videos on youtube and I just cannot believe that the man continues to perform live any longer. Sorry to say but he simply butchers every song with his singing - both sonically and visually. I'm not sure I understand the appeal any longer....
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Post by 2old2standup2fat2try on May 7, 2009 15:54:25 GMT
I saw them a couple of years ago, and his voice sounded pretty good. I guess it's pot luck.
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Post by nonrabbit on May 7, 2009 19:33:29 GMT
Not to hijack the thread but I've been watching some of the more recent videos on youtube and I just cannot believe that the man continues to perform live any longer. Sorry to say but he simply butchers every song with his singing - both sonically and visually. I'm not sure I understand the appeal any longer.... I saw them last year and was a bit apprehensive well VERY apprehensive cause I hadn't seen them for ages. His voice sounds weaker on utube and more strained than the show I seen. I really didn't notice it at the concert.
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Post by TM on May 7, 2009 20:04:14 GMT
Not to hijack the thread but I've been watching some of the more recent videos on youtube and I just cannot believe that the man continues to perform live any longer. Sorry to say but he simply butchers every song with his singing - both sonically and visually. I'm not sure I understand the appeal any longer.... I saw them last year and was a bit apprehensive well VERY apprehensive cause I hadn't seen them for ages. His voice sounds weaker on utube and more strained than the show I seen. I really didn't notice it at the concert. Thanks NR. That's what I'm hoping for. I bought tickets for this fall - after passing the last couple of years. I love the guy, but no longer do I care to sit there feeling badly for him.
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Post by rockisland on May 7, 2009 20:34:11 GMT
His voice sounds weaker on utube and more strained than the show I seen. I really didn't notice it at the concert. This is very true! I was suprised when i first saw Tull last year, i was expecting Ian's voice to be really bad, but it wasn't at all. I saw them performing Rocks on the Road in Prague last November and it sounded awesome!
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tommie
Master Craftsman
Posts: 392
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Post by tommie on May 7, 2009 20:43:34 GMT
TM, I wholeheartedly agree with you. I luv him as a musician/songwriter . But I dig your point about "sonically AND visually". Not only are his vocals embarrassingly pathetic but watching that constant neck straining thing he does is soooo annoying. Those who say his live vocal perfs are a hit-or-miss thing, or that he sounds better in person than on youtube are either outright lying, decieving themselves or so stuck in having to truly living in dark. But, TM I definitely do NOT feel the least bit sorry for him.......he's not sick, he's tremendously wealthy, etc. I truly DO feel soory for "fans" who still pay good money to let Ian get away with this (not to mention the fact thay Tull/Ian have been an "oldies/greatest hits" band for years. I will never stop luving Tull and Ian b/c my ggod ears know what a fab songwriter/musician he is, but my good ears also know, unquestionably, that his voice is..... embarrassingly pathetic. I would rather see a 2-hr show of total instrumental Tull. That would still be a plasure. But he's a wired dude with no shame, I guess......in love with the almighty dollar, and totally oblivious to both the sad state of his voice and disrepectful to his fans.
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Post by nonrabbit on May 7, 2009 21:08:27 GMT
Those who say his live vocal perfs are a hit-or-miss thing, or that he sounds better in person than on youtube are either outright lying, decieving themselves or so stuck in having to truly living in dark....... Neither of the above. I watched the videos of The Barbican and thought the flute playing was incredible all round .I also posted a video yesterday of of him playing flute with Uriah Heep in 2000 and whether you're a Heep fan or not the performance( imo) was brilliant. I still think he should keep singing and I base that solely on what I heard recently. What he does in the future is entirely up to him and after all he knows more about performing than we do.
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Post by rockisland on May 7, 2009 21:21:40 GMT
I still think he should keep singing and I base that solely on what I heard recently. What he does in the future is entirely up to him and after all he knows more about performing than we do. I completely agree with you on that one. If Ian is enjoying what he is doing then he should stick with it for however long he wants.
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rebecca
Master Craftsman
Posts: 458
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Post by rebecca on May 7, 2009 21:38:26 GMT
I haven't heard any life shows in ages, and he never comes near here anyway, so I don't have to make a decision about whether or not to go, and I really don't have an opinion about his voice these days, but I have an opinion about whether he should stop or not.
I do feel sorry for him. It is worth a great deal of compassion when someone has a vocation and it's getting harder and harder to do. I've worked most of my adult life with people who perform for a living and who are in the public eye, and it can be incredibly sad to watch their abilities and popularity fade - especially when it's ultimately associated with getting older (meaning that there are overtones of mortality involved).
He is famous for being conscious of finances, but I don't believe that's all that's going on here. This is the largest part of what his working life has been about, probably even his life as a whole. I don't believe anybody you can function in this kind of career without truly loving it, there's too much hassle involved. From all appearances, the thing he most enjoys about it these days is performing (rather than writing and recording) and singing is a part of that.
I absolutely think he should continue to do what he loves to do. Those who are enjoying it - and it's clear from posts here that many still are - will keep on going. Those who don't want to hear it can just not go, and then everybody's happy! So it's really a non-problem.
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Post by TM on May 7, 2009 21:40:37 GMT
I saw them a couple of years ago, and his voice sounded pretty good. I guess it's pot luck. But even if you're lucky enough to see him on a good night, he still struggles throughout the night. IMO, he should toss out EVERY song that stresses his vocal chords.
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Post by TM on May 7, 2009 21:57:24 GMT
TM, I wholeheartedly agree with you. I luv him as a musician/songwriter . But I dig your point about "sonically AND visually". Not only are his vocals embarrassingly pathetic but watching that constant neck straining thing he does is soooo annoying. Those who say his live vocal perfs are a hit-or-miss thing, or that he sounds better in person than on youtube are either outright lying, decieving themselves or so stuck in having to truly living in dark. But, TM I definitely do NOT feel the least bit sorry for him.......he's not sick, he's tremendously wealthy, etc. I truly DO feel soory for "fans" who still pay good money to let Ian get away with this (not to mention the fact thay Tull/Ian have been an "oldies/greatest hits" band for years. I will never stop luving Tull and Ian b/c my ggod ears know what a fab songwriter/musician he is, but my good ears also know, unquestionably, that his voice is..... embarrassingly pathetic. I would rather see a 2-hr show of total instrumental Tull. That would still be a plasure. But he's a wired dude with no shame, I guess......in love with the almighty dollar, and totally oblivious to both the sad state of his voice and disrepectful to his fans. Hi Tommie, I see that side as well, and it's a point to be argued. Bottom line though is he'll keep playing as long as the people keep paying. But I'll give it another shot this fall and see what happens...
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Post by rockisland on May 7, 2009 22:47:56 GMT
Go for it TM! You'll have a great time at the concert!
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Post by tullistray on May 8, 2009 1:09:43 GMT
I hope I don't fall asleep while yet again coming to the defence of Ian's voice. Now, this is the same voice that (in my sleuthing for Tull reviews around the world) I have on at least 2 occasions in the last couple years seen reviewed, by truly surprised non Tullie reviewers, as having witnessed the greatest performance in any genre they had ever witnessed with dates of years like 2007-9, not 1972 or 3. And no where was the need seen to visit Tull chestnuts like Passion Play or Black Satin Dancer, but he does regularly reinvent constants in the catalogue, and a visit to the annual set lists on Ministry puts the stick that he plays the same thing all the time. And when I think of it, I first came to notice the voice differences as early as 77, and certainly it had become an issue to an element of their audience by the mid eighties, in fact to my ears the worst years for his voice were 87 thru 89, around the time he ceased smoking. Would it have been better for him to put it to rest after UW or even earlier? Well maybe if Tull had they could have the comeback tour at 300 dollars or more a pop, and had they retired about 71 I have little doubt they would be much more fondly remembered and maybe even in the rock hall. At the very start they were revered by the critics and the underground. I am certainly glad he never gave up the chase, ("for gods sake keep moving") and believe the benefits have been reaped with some of the finest music of their career since 95. But there again I love things like Boris Dancing or Eurology, not specifically because they are instrumental, but because I believe they have the "it". And throughout the relatively recent Living With The Past I see no evidence of any voice trouble throughout, other than this does not sound like the 25 y.o. man who sang Passion Play.
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tommie
Master Craftsman
Posts: 392
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Post by tommie on May 8, 2009 1:43:57 GMT
I give up, TM........ he should keep singing b/c "he knows more about performing than we do"?! "If Ian enjoys singing........he should stick with it"?!!
It's all about what HE wants?! wow. Hmmm.....do these people actually have.... Ah, fuggetaboutit! Lemme get outta here.
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Post by tullistray on May 8, 2009 2:46:04 GMT
I give up, TM........ he should keep singing b/c "he knows more about performing than we do"?! "If Ian enjoys singing........he should stick with it"?!! It's all about what HE wants?! wow. Hmmm.....do these people actually have.... Ah, fuggetaboutit! Lemme get outta here. I ran back quickly through this thread and agree with non rabbit" he knows more about performing than we do", indeed it is stating something that is plainly evident. And who are "these people" to whom you refer? BTW, I dare say without even having thought it that Ian Anderson just might know more about performing, as you quote, than people responding on a fan board, indeed one concerning him. And praises that he has NEVER been beholden to what his fans want, as a direct result, that Tull tombstone still reads 1968 - ?. As to Ian and his money on which people speculate, do you not think he had enough to insure both he and future Anderson generations for a hundred years or so as of about 1975? Is this the same greedy man who created 500 jobs in the Scottish Highlands in the early 80's in an economy in the Highlands that saw what, 35 per cent unemployment?
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Post by steelmonkey on May 8, 2009 3:25:50 GMT
Ian Anderson should tour as long as he wants...I'd pay to watch him change a light bulb after all these decades of superlative music and stagecraft...I think it is his vocation and life's passion and i don't begrudge him for a second that he doesn't have the voice nor legs of a twenty five year old.
I would disagree with the statement that Ian knows more about performing than any of us....after all...he gets lots of breaks and times when he's not on tour...me, I have to ACT like I give a f*&^ at work every day of the week...if that ain't performing, I don't know what is.
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rebecca
Master Craftsman
Posts: 458
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Post by rebecca on May 8, 2009 3:31:15 GMT
I give up, TM........ he should keep singing b/c "he knows more about performing than we do"?! "If Ian enjoys singing........he should stick with it"?!! It's all about what HE wants?! wow. Hmmm.....do these people actually have.... Ah, fuggetaboutit! Lemme get outta here. Yes, as a matter of fact, whether he performs or not IS about what he wants. In fact, everyone should do what they want. Those who want to go should go, those who don't shouldn't. Everybody gets exactly what they want, everybody's happy. What other issue is there?
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Post by tullistray on May 8, 2009 3:34:22 GMT
Ian Anderson should tour as long as he wants...I'd pay to watch him change a light bulb after all these decades of superlative music and stagecraft...I think it is his vocation and life's passion and i don't begrudge him for a second that he doesn't have the voice nor legs of a twenty five year old. I would disagree with the statement that Ian knows more about performing than any of us....after all...he gets lots of breaks and times when he's not on tour...me, I have to ACT like I give a f*&^ at work every day of the week...if that ain't performing, I don't know what is. My man!
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Post by fatman on May 8, 2009 4:12:05 GMT
As the Fatman, let me weigh in on the topic of Ian's voice. I think it varies greatly tour to tour, and sometimes from show to show. In November 2007 for example, I saw a god awful Tull show in Newark, New Jersey, which was so bad that I did not even bother trying to get tickets to the NYC show a week later. He didn't sing that night, he croaked. However, at the recent 40 year anniversary show at Jones Beach (summer 2008), I thought that after the first few numbers, his singing got stronger and stronger as the night went on. He sang the entire Heavy Horses, and the band played so well that if you closed your eyes it almost sounded like the Big Tull of the late 70s era. I thought his vocals that night were the best they have been in about fifteen years. So, on that basis, I feel that Ian is still able to carry it off despite possessing only about 25% of his former vocal power. (The problem is that on some nights he only has about 10% of his former singing capacity.) If you have any doubts about how great Tull were last summer, go to You Tube and check out the Jones Beach and Red Rocks performances from that tour.
Jeff
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Post by nonrabbit on May 8, 2009 6:23:21 GMT
I would disagree with the statement that Ian knows more about performing than any of us....after all...he gets lots of breaks and times when he's not on tour...me, I have to ACT like I give a f*&^ at work every day of the week...if that ain't performing, I don't know what is. touche steelie ;D
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Post by nonrabbit on May 8, 2009 6:27:26 GMT
I give up, TM........ he should keep singing b/c "he knows more about performing than we do"?! "If Ian enjoys singing........he should stick with it"?!! It's all about what HE wants?! wow. Hmmm.....do these people actually have.... Ah, fuggetaboutit! Lemme get outta here. aww don't go Tommie - I fairly enjoy these blood raising topics it gets me away from the photo album and the 60's Next topic Should Ol' Martin hang up the guitar and who's going to tell him me or you ?? ;D ;D ;D
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Post by nonrabbit on May 8, 2009 6:46:29 GMT
Go for it TM! You'll have a great time at the concert! Hear hear !!
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Post by rockisland on May 8, 2009 11:03:31 GMT
Ian Anderson should tour as long as he wants...I'd pay to watch him change a light bulb after all these decades of superlative music and stagecraft...I think it is his vocation and life's passion and i don't begrudge him for a second that he doesn't have the voice nor legs of a twenty five year old. Yes Steel! I agree and would also pay to watch Ian change a lightbulb. I am planning to see Ian and Tull 3 times this year, i don't mind Ian's voice at all. ;D
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Post by stormmonkey on May 8, 2009 11:49:14 GMT
Ian Anderson should tour as long as he wants...I'd pay to watch him change a light bulb after all these decades of superlative music and stagecraft...I think it is his vocation and life's passion and i don't begrudge him for a second that he doesn't have the voice nor legs of a twenty five year old. Yes Steel! I agree and would also pay to watch Ian change a lightbulb. I am planning to see Ian and Tull 3 times this year, i don't mind Ian's voice at all. ;D Would this be the A Little Light(bulb) Music Tour? Are we talking your standard 60 WATT bulb here or one of those energy saving bulbs? Brian.
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