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Post by Equus on May 28, 2015 6:42:05 GMT
...Red nosed?? Now how did that slip through the scrutinizing eyes of censorship? Is this the start of The Jethro Tull's Martin Barre Band's Christmas album...?
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Post by Tull50 on May 28, 2015 21:50:19 GMT
It is insightful that Martin advertises three distinct musical genres: Blues,Rock and Tull. Jethro Tull cannot be categorized... in that Martin is right... though Jethro Tull is also Rock, and Blues once in a while... But Martin is playing increasingly fewer Tull songs, he feels more comfortable playing blues, even some Tull songs have been adapted to sound less rock. Martin Barre - Hymn 43, Live In Barcelona 2014 It sounds great but does not sound like Tull Even if you are not a good Tull fan maybe you do not know what song it is
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Post by Equus on May 29, 2015 4:29:44 GMT
Jethro Tull cannot be categorized... in that Martin is right... though Jethro Tull is also Rock, and Blues once in a while... But Martin is playing increasingly fewer Tull songs, he feels more comfortable playing blues, even some Tull songs have been adapted to sound less rock. Martin Barre - Hymn 43, Live In Barcelona 2014 It sounds great but does not sound like Tull Even if you are not a good Tull fan maybe you do not know what song it is Now that Martin isn't playing together with Ian he doesn't really sound like Jethro Tull anymore... Even when he is playing Jethro Tull songs...and I think that's because he is a very different personality all together... He is not Ian Anderson... The core sound of Jethro Tull is the sound of Ian... Not Martin Barre... Another thing to be considered is this... How much of Martin's guitar playing, when he was playing in Jethro Tull, is really Ian directing Martin, and telling him what to do? And if Ian weren't directing him thoroughly throughout all of those years... Why doesn't Martin sound a lot more like what he used to sound like when he was together with Ian and playing the music of Jethro Tull?
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Post by hardliner on May 29, 2015 10:41:58 GMT
If you read what Martin has said since the split is he is deliberately 're-writing' the versions of the few Tull songs he is currently playing to give them a much heavier sound. It is a very concious move to not be labelled as a Tull tribute ,hence no flute player or keyboards. I personally think its a very refreshing change to the music and a bold move by Martin. Im sure if Martin wanted to clone the Tull sound he could easily find musicians to do it. Listen to this brilliant version of My God played by a tribute band with Martin ,its close to early Tull as it gets (no Ian in sight either) www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EWYThxAO8Y
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Post by Tull50 on May 29, 2015 12:32:50 GMT
If you read what Martin has said since the split is he is deliberately 're-writing' the versions of the few Tull songs he is currently playing to give them a much heavier sound. It is a very concious move to not be labelled as a Tull tribute ,hence no flute player or keyboards. I personally think its a very refreshing change to the music and a bold move by Martin. Im sure if Martin wanted to clone the Tull sound he could easily find musicians to do it. Listen to this brilliant version of My God played by a tribute band with Martin ,its close to early Tull as it gets (no Ian in sight either) www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EWYThxAO8YIf I have seen this live, and probably was the best Martin without Tull I've seen. The 1st time that Martin played with the Beggar's Farm was at Tullianos Convention (Gavà - Barcelona). The problem is that Martin only play the notes of a musical score that you can buy anywhere, there is nothing added for his part...
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Post by Tull50 on May 29, 2015 12:38:54 GMT
But Martin is playing increasingly fewer Tull songs, he feels more comfortable playing blues, even some Tull songs have been adapted to sound less rock. Martin Barre - Hymn 43, Live In Barcelona 2014 www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbEZMD3nOvcIt sounds great but does not sound like Tull Even if you are not a good Tull fan maybe you do not know what song it is Now that Martin isn't playing together with Ian he doesn't really sound like Jethro Tull anymore... Even when he is playing Jethro Tull songs...and I think that's because he is a very different personality all together... He is not Ian Anderson... The core sound of Jethro Tull is the sound of Ian... Not Martin Barre... Another thing to be considered is this... How much of Martin's guitar playing, when he was playing in Jethro Tull, is really Ian directing Martin, and telling him what to do? And if Ian weren't directing him thoroughly throughout all of those years... Why doesn't Martin sound a lot more like what he used to sound like when he was together with Ian and playing the music of Jethro Tull? Martin now only play the notes of a musical score, there is no solos or additions from its part. Martin is a great musician, a great interpreter of the music that others write, but it's a lousy composer... If you've been playing with Alan Thomson (collaborator with Rick Wakeman, Phil Collins, Eric Clapton, Robert Palmer, David Gilmour...), the last bassplayer on tour, then you have seen two great musicians together interpreting the music of others (except some songs from Martin). If there are any arrangements as in "Hymn 43" (the previously mentioned), but who has made these arrangements? I'm not sure Anyway this is just my opinion and really enjoyed watching-listening Martin Barre's Band.
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Post by hardliner on May 29, 2015 12:47:55 GMT
Play only the notes of a musical score ?? Dont quite understand what you are saying my friend . Martin style/feel/tone and technique is really quite unique .
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Post by Tull50 on May 29, 2015 12:53:39 GMT
Play only the notes of a musical score ?? Dont quite understand what you are saying my friend . Martin style/feel/tone and technique is really quite unique . Yes, sorry I forgot Martin's Tune
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Post by hardliner on May 29, 2015 13:21:09 GMT
I think its a bit late in the day for Martin to all of a sudden become a great songwriter. Im sure his contribution to Ians songs especially in the early days was massive as was the input of JE,DP,GC,BB,CB,MA .
Its also fair to say that some great guitarists have made a great career form playing a lot of cover versions . Joe Bonamassa ,Eric Clapton,Gary Moore played a lot of covers and made them their own to great effect.
If Martin prefers this route thats great by me.
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Post by Tull50 on May 29, 2015 14:03:41 GMT
I think its a bit late in the day for Martin to all of a sudden become a great songwriter. Im sure his contribution to Ians songs especially in the early days was massive as was the input of JE,DP,GC,BB,CB,MA . Its also fair to say that some great guitarists have made a great career form playing a lot of cover versions . Joe Bonamassa ,Eric Clapton,Gary Moore played a lot of covers and made them their own to great effect. If Martin prefers this route thats great by me. I agree with that, I do not mean that Martin has forgotten how to play the guitar, when I say he is a great performer, I include style / feel / tone and technique Just my opinion, but I expected a little more from Martin alone, some solo, something different that maybe I can not explain. I know what he can do with the guitar, I've seen do it playing with Jethro Tull, but I'm not 100% satisfied with his own band. Of course Martin is one of my favorite guitarists but would have preferred to chose another way for his band. It is not my intention to upset anyone, just give my objective opinion that will surely be different from most of you...
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Post by hardliner on May 29, 2015 14:42:59 GMT
Everyone has their opinion and they are entitled to it.
I personally wish Ians band had very different aspects ,there are a lot of stuff in it i just cant stand but hey ho .
I watched Martins band last year and he must have played between 30 and 40 guitar solos on the night,far far more than he ever played with Tull live. He played with an intensity ive never saw in him before ,i honestly thought his playing was reinvented. Not bad for a guy approaching 70 .
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Post by maddogfagin on May 29, 2015 18:10:29 GMT
I think its a bit late in the day for Martin to all of a sudden become a great songwriter. Im sure his contribution to Ians songs especially in the early days was massive as was the input of JE,DP,GC,BB,CB,MA . Its also fair to say that some great guitarists have made a great career form playing a lot of cover versions . Joe Bonamassa ,Eric Clapton,Gary Moore played a lot of covers and made them their own to great effect. If Martin prefers this route thats great by me. That's very true and I don't think Martin has ever claimed to be a songwriter - he lets his guitar playing "tell the story". Reminiscent of Brian Jones before his untimely death. Could play anything and embellished many a great Stones' record but when he came to writing songs he found himself lacking.
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Post by Tull50 on May 29, 2015 18:38:39 GMT
I saw Martin play 5 times from 2012-2015 therefore I must have seen him play 200 guitar solos! By the way I have not seen any improvisation in any of those five concerts. It is clear that I have no idea of music because it is nowhere near the very few guitar solos I've seen...except those included in the musical scores authored by Ian Anderson. As my English is very poor here is a sample of what I wanted in the music of Martin Barre. I see many differences, maybe someone can explain me what's a guitar solo and how many are in each video
Jethro Tull - Locomotive Breath
Martin Barre - Locomotive Breath
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Post by Equus on May 29, 2015 19:29:48 GMT
Too me it's pretty oblivious that Ian is the man... Ian could have done it without Martin Barre... Ian knows exactly what he wants and he is perfectly capable of telling people what he wants and how he wants it done... Everything in Jethro Tull "smells" like Ian... Everything Ian have ever done is so personal that no one on the planet earth could have done it remotely like Ian Anderson... Martin is a wonderful guitarist, but Ian could have done it without him... Martin is not Ian's equal, he was a member... Just look at Florian! That's mostly Ian's directions he is following... Need I say more?
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Post by Tull50 on May 29, 2015 19:45:30 GMT
Too me it's pretty oblivious that Ian is the man... Ian could have done it without Martin Barre... Ian knows exactly what he wants and he is perfectly capable of telling people what he wants and how he wants it done... Everything in Jethro Tull "smells" like Ian... Everything Ian's have ever done is so personal that no one on the planet earth could have done it remotely like Ian Anderson... Martin is a wonderful guitarist, but Ian could have done it without him... Martin is not Ian's equal, he was a member... look at Florian! That's Ian's directions he is following... Need I say more? Is enough, I totally agree! Ian Anderson - Locomotive Breath Ian improves the qualities from others
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Post by hardliner on May 29, 2015 20:29:57 GMT
You can discuss this til the cows come home ,opinions ,opinions, opinions. No one is disputing Ian is a genius . But to dis Martin's input as being futile is very naive. Tull sounded very different with Mick as to Martin as they would have with Tony Iommi. Martins solo in 1982 will obviously be very different to 2014 just the same as Ians flute solos are very different.
To think Ian told Martin what to play in solos is not a wise statement. Remember Ian admitted he was a failed guitarist to begin with,hence the swop for a Flute. Some people would prefer Ians earlier flute solos as they seemed to have more energy although he is a far more refined flute player these days
Jethro Tull music in concert was not really improvised in general,Ians flute solos night after night were very well structured as were Martins solos. The Tull show was really very well rehearsed to the point of Ians patter being almost the same night after night. The solos evolved over a period of time thats why they slightly changed .
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Post by Equus on May 29, 2015 21:09:07 GMT
You can discuss this til the cows come home ,opinions ,opinions, opinions. No one is disputing Ian is a genius . But to dis Martin's input as being futile is very naive. Tull sounded very different with Mick as to Martin as they would have with Tony Iommi. Martins solo in 1982 will obviously be very different to 2014 just the same as Ians flute solos are very different. To think Ian told Martin what to play in solos is not a wise statement. Remember Ian admitted he was a failed guitarist to begin with,hence the swop for a Flute. Some people would prefer Ians earlier flute solos as they seemed to have more energy although he is a far more refined flute player these days Jethro Tull music in concert was not really improvised in general,Ians flute solos night after night were very well structured as were Martins solos. The Tull show was really very well rehearsed to the point of Ians patter being almost the same night after night. The solos evolved over a period of time thats why they slightly changed . Okay Mr. Hardliner... you seem to be taking this a little bit too personal... Opinions, opinions, opinions? not cool... It's not personal, it's only music... And who said that Martins input was futile? I didn't... and please try to state your opinions without telling people that they are naive... I'm listening...
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2015 21:23:17 GMT
You can discuss this til the cows come home ,opinions ,opinions, opinions. No one is disputing Ian is a genius . But to dis Martin's input as being futile is very naive. Tull sounded very different with Mick as to Martin as they would have with Tony Iommi. Martins solo in 1982 will obviously be very different to 2014 just the same as Ians flute solos are very different. To think Ian told Martin what to play in solos is not a wise statement. Remember Ian admitted he was a failed guitarist to begin with,hence the swop for a Flute. Some people would prefer Ians earlier flute solos as they seemed to have more energy although he is a far more refined flute player these days Jethro Tull music in concert was not really improvised in general,Ians flute solos night after night were very well structured as were Martins solos. The Tull show was really very well rehearsed to the point of Ians patter being almost the same night after night. The solos evolved over a period of time thats why they slightly changed . This post pretty much nails it in my view. I got into the band mostly for the lyrics. So of course this makes Ian Anderson first & foremost for me.
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Post by hardliner on May 29, 2015 21:26:47 GMT
ok mr Equus time to chill with a beer and listen to some early Tull
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2015 14:15:06 GMT
Too me it's pretty oblivious that Ian is the man... Ian could have done it without Martin Barre... Ian knows exactly what he wants and he is perfectly capable of telling people what he wants and how he wants it done... Everything in Jethro Tull "smells" like Ian... Everything Ian have ever done is so personal that no one on the planet earth could have done it remotely like Ian Anderson... Martin is a wonderful guitarist, but Ian could have done it without him... Martin is not Ian's equal, he was a member... Just look at Florian! That's mostly Ian's directions he is following... Need I say more? Yeah, I'm here for Ian Anderson. No Ian Anderson, I'm leaving the scene. CHEERS! Michael
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Post by theothertull on May 30, 2015 19:45:57 GMT
You can discuss this til the cows come home ,opinions ,opinions, opinions. No one is disputing Ian is a genius . But to dis Martin's input as being futile is very naive. Tull sounded very different with Mick as to Martin as they would have with Tony Iommi. Martins solo in 1982 will obviously be very different to 2014 just the same as Ians flute solos are very different. To think Ian told Martin what to play in solos is not a wise statement. Remember Ian admitted he was a failed guitarist to begin with,hence the swop for a Flute. Some people would prefer Ians earlier flute solos as they seemed to have more energy although he is a far more refined flute player these days Jethro Tull music in concert was not really improvised in general,Ians flute solos night after night were very well structured as were Martins solos. The Tull show was really very well rehearsed to the point of Ians patter being almost the same night after night. The solos evolved over a period of time thats why they slightly changed . This post pretty much nails it in my view. I got into the band mostly for the lyrics. So of course this makes Ian Anderson first & foremost for me. You know when you get past the noise and emotion, and you look to the music, and ask the following: When you liten to Martin's stuff, while with Tull or after, does it have any of the characteristics of Tull at their height in the 1970's or since? The time changes, rhythms, the real hall marks of what we all got and saw in Tull? I say it does not. Lyrics, not even up for debate. You look at Anderson, all the hallmarks; is it as great as it was in the 70's not consistently, but it does show up in TAAB2 and HE, and is clearly there live. I like Martin, an important element of Tull, but not critical, Ian would have achieved the same, I the critical ones were Barrie, Jeffrey and Terry Ellis.
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Post by rredmond on May 30, 2015 20:05:52 GMT
I'm guessing hardliner is just noting that everyone has their own opinions. I'm with him and tootull. I love Jethro Tull, and it was definitely Ian's baby, but Martin played (heh) a big part in that too. Most who know me, know I'm a humongous Martin fan, but I feel like it isn't Tull unless it's both of them together. And (if I'm being honest) though I haven't seen either of them in concert recently, I'd probably check out Martin Barre in concert before Ian Anderson. But that's a wicked close call, and I'd really like to (and likely will) see both of them asap! But it's "all good in the songs from the wood", I'll hope they get back together, but for now I'll sit back with a stout and cigar and have the new MitG remaster blaring in my ears! At least until the wife and daughters get home. Be well, --Ron--
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Post by steelmonkey on May 30, 2015 21:11:44 GMT
Lock them out if you haven't gotten to the Cold Wind and Aqualung at the end of the first CD or the Back Door Angels at end of second.
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Post by rredmond on May 30, 2015 22:47:04 GMT
Lock them out if you haven't gotten to the Cold Wind and Aqualung at the end of the first CD or the Back Door Angels at end of second. I'm not that brave! Nah, I've listened to it plenty I tells ya. But not enough!!
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Post by hardliner on May 30, 2015 23:18:26 GMT
The critical ones were:-'Jeffrey' - come on man give yourself a shake Ha Ha Ha Ha say no more
I must admit its very entertaining coming on here lol!!
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Post by hardliner on May 30, 2015 23:20:07 GMT
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Post by theothertull on May 31, 2015 0:33:56 GMT
The critical ones were:-'Jeffrey' - come on man give yourself a shake Ha Ha Ha Ha say no more I must admit its very entertaining coming on here lol!! If you don't get Jeffrey's influence on Ian, the stage show, and energy he brought to Martin, I am wondering if you saw them between 71 - 75, and then after. Just look at Martin's stage presence in recent MITG re-release and the TullOvison portion a year later with John. I notice you chose not to comment on my central question about the "Tull" sound(s); instead deflecting to Jeffrey. I am not telling you that Martin is no good, or that you should not be loyal to him if you choose. But he is not crucial to Tull, he needs Ian more than the other wau around, and his bitter musings, self serving and self indulgent comments since he got fired show it. BTW - lol, really??? Usually a sign of little to say.
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Post by Tull50 on May 31, 2015 16:47:40 GMT
The critical ones were:-'Jeffrey' - come on man give yourself a shake Ha Ha Ha Ha say no more I must admit its very entertaining coming on here lol!! If you don't get Jeffrey's influence on Ian, the stage show, and energy he brought to Martin, I am wondering if you saw them between 71 - 75, and then after. Just look at Martin's stage presence in recent MITG re-release and the TullOvison portion a year later with John. I notice you chose not to comment on my central question about the "Tull" sound(s); instead deflecting to Jeffrey. I am not telling you that Martin is no good, or that you should not be loyal to him if you choose. But he is not crucial to Tull, he needs Ian more than the other wau around, and his bitter musings, self serving and self indulgent comments since he got fired show it. BTW - lol, really??? Usually a sign of little to say. I agree with theothertull, and of course I'm here for Ian Anderson Sorry hardliner, but I'm not at all agree with you, even with the great support of tootull whose contributions to this forum are always very important to me. Yesterday before the match of FC. Barcelona, I told my friends that Martin plays about 30 guitar solos in each concert...the result was a rain of stuffed olives over my. Outside jokes Martin is a great guitarist but I think Ian take from Martin the best of himself, maybe it's the best guitarist for Tull, but alone is only a shadow of what once was. That I don't agree with the radical defenders of Martin does not mean that I do not admire Martin. This guitar solo, I think is not prepared again and again..., I think it is improvised and has been repeated few or none times in the Tull history, and surely is one of the longest guitar solos I have seen
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Post by steelmonkey on May 31, 2015 21:51:47 GMT
Some crap magazine just put out a 'best 100' guitar players issue...you guessed it: No Martin. What are those people thinking? Any list that doesn't include Martin Barre in top 25 rock guitarists ever is FOS in my opinion...and I don't mean full of shoes.
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Post by hardliner on Jun 1, 2015 18:44:39 GMT
The critical ones were:-'Jeffrey' - come on man give yourself a shake Ha Ha Ha Ha say no more I must admit its very entertaining coming on here lol!! If you don't get Jeffrey's influence on Ian, the stage show, and energy he brought to Martin, I am wondering if you saw them between 71 - 75, and then after. Just look at Martin's stage presence in recent MITG re-release and the TullOvison portion a year later with John. I notice you chose not to comment on my central question about the "Tull" sound(s); instead deflecting to Jeffrey. I am not telling you that Martin is no good, or that you should not be loyal to him if you choose. But he is not crucial to Tull, he needs Ian more than the other wau around, and his bitter musings, self serving and self indulgent comments since he got fired show it. BTW - lol, really??? Usually a sign of little to say. Well when i 'look to the music' i see 10 times more energy in everything Glen did as opposed to Jeffrey. JHH admitted himself he is no musician,Ian got frustrated at times as JHH couldnt keep up with the others to learn the music . yep he gave the band a more 'zany' kind of image. Like Glen said JHH was obviously not employed for musical reasons. Who knows what the 71-75 stuff would have sounded like with Glen (remember hes the only bassplayer to date who's basslines are memorable). Standup is still the benchmark for a lot of Tull fans. Martin obviuosly developed more confidence which would be a natural progression playing with a band over a period of time. I heard Martin suffered from stagefright early on. Ian songwriting obviuosly improved from 71-75, again a natural progression that usually happens with most bands Zeppelin,Purple,Free all the same. You may think Martin is not crucial to the 'Tull' sound but there'll be many that say your very wrong. To be recognised by the greats (Vai,Moore,Knopfler,Blackmore,Bonamassa,Trower) says far more about Martins ability than your continued attempts to assasinate all he did for the band.
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