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Post by steelmonkey on Mar 4, 2010 4:12:56 GMT
Maybe it's time for a clear, unambiguous posting of rules...I mean, I wonder if i am guilty if personal attacks by describing Ian as a stubborn old, new-trick disabled and possibly socially retarded by lack of some interpersonal skill development made un-neccesary by success and fame coming when he was still an un-formed adolescent...or is the rule against personal attacks on other posters? I wasn't following close enough to notice exactly what and why was deleted starting another round of censorship vs anarchy here at our international kindergarden....and by that i am not attacking anyone...some of my best friends are in kindergarden! I'm rambling...how about some clear rules!
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mix
Journeyman
Posts: 136
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Post by mix on Mar 4, 2010 9:43:45 GMT
If a personal attack occurs then delete the attack and give the person responsible a warning but do not delete the entire thread.
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Post by admin on Mar 4, 2010 9:45:42 GMT
Ok, I have to date tried to avoid having anything that are to be considered hard and fast rules as in my opinion it should boil down to common sense and members were encouraged to police their own behavour. However, in the light of recent events I feel this policy has failed. I have now implemented a set of forum rules which will hopefully clear up any questions about what is and isn't allowed and hopefully will not detract from the enjoyment of this forum for the vast majority of members. The forum rules can be found at the top of the home page. *edit* Sorry, the I didn't realise I'd accidentally made the rules viewable by admin only! They should be up there now.
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quizzkid
Master Craftsman
Spin me back down the years...
Posts: 297
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Post by quizzkid on Mar 4, 2010 11:45:55 GMT
Ok, I have to date tried to avoid having anything that are to be considered hard and fast rules as in my opinion it should boil down to common sense and members were encouraged to police their own behavour. However, in the light of recent events I feel this policy has failed. I have now created a set of forum rules which will hopefully clear up any questions about what is and isn't allowed and hopefully will not detract from the enjoyment of this forum for the vast majority of members. The forum rules can be found at the top of the home page. Hi Col, Couldn't find the new set of rules, but based on your comments about the need for them due to "a small minority of members being intent on beating up Tull"*, I presume that I am in that target group, not so much by belief but by inference and accusation and the fact that I have a critical and possibly differing view of the current band position. I won't try to defend myself too much, I openly admit that I dislike the current regime of endless touring, no substantial new output, poor vocals etc, and I could never subscribe to the "Ian is a genius who can do no wrong camp", never have and never will, nor can I believe in the removal of the right to a person's free speech. I do not beleive in bullying in whatever form it is applied, whether it be in the way in which Ian himself has been reported to treat band members [reported by former band members themselves [and not a fans tittle-tattle]], through unwarrented abuse of any person or through the blanket condemnation of a group who simply hold differing views. However, this is your site, and you took the time the trouble and the effort to put it together and make it work to the benefit of the many differing souls who joined up. You and I have met several times and I think you know my views about Ian and Tull as they operate nowadays, and I thought you knew the views I hold do not make me any the less passionate about their music or the band than anyone else. The world would be a poorer place and a less human place if those sort of petty differences weren't tolerated a little more. However, as I said, it is your board and it's your rules, and rather than throw my toys out of your pram, I won't say that I'm out of here, I have some good friends here, and will drop by time to time to peek in on this Tull world to see how things are doing. But, I cannot see any point in particpating in any discussions if there is no chance of generating dialogue, discussion and discourse through offering an opinion of ones own that may differ from the supposed "majority" and simply being branded a spoiler, a heretic or simply a person who is here to "beat up Tull". can't call Ian names, but it's OK to be ostracised for holding a different opinion. had to get that off my chest, no hard feelings personally, good luck and maybe I'll see you and Jen at a Tull gig sometime. All the best. *later deleted through modifying the post
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Post by admin on Mar 4, 2010 12:00:53 GMT
There is no target group or individual (yourself included) involved in implementing these rules as I am sure you will see now they are up there. They have been put in place not to stop discussion or exchange of opinions but to prevent then from deteriorating into personal attacks. There is no opinion which is now not allowed. I intend to keep this forum a friendly and welcoming place for all, that's all. Nobody has been individually singled out or been given any kind of notice regarding their posts.
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Post by admin on Mar 4, 2010 12:24:42 GMT
Quizz, I have responded to your question via PM.
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mix
Journeyman
Posts: 136
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Post by mix on Mar 4, 2010 15:37:01 GMT
I just took a look at the rules Col and I gotta say they look like one of Ian's legal productions. I couldn't be bothered to read them. This is a forum, not an EU treaty.
That said, I enjoy your forum but why not keep things simple? If someone steps out of line give them a warning and delete the offending remark. Job done. No need for pages of rules about upper-case shouting. IF I WANT TO SHOUT I SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO SHOUT.
What got my goat was that entire thread was deleted which as Quiz points out is a blatant silencing of an alternative point of view perhaps not shared by you. Anyway, I'll continue to drop by if you'll have me but keep it real, life is complicated enougth.
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quizzkid
Master Craftsman
Spin me back down the years...
Posts: 297
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Post by quizzkid on Mar 4, 2010 21:04:21 GMT
Quizz, I have responded to your question via PM. Col, There was no need to respond by PM, I believe my question could have remained as I don't believe it infringed any of the rules, and in deleting it and editing your original comments you have made my original reply seem totally irrelevent in places and out of context in terms of a response to your original wording. I would have also been happy for your reply to me to be made public. So, not only has the original thread been deleted, I have also had two of my follow up posts, which I don't think infringed any rules deleted. I would like to respond to Ash's comments on another thread but as I said participating in a forum where dialogue, questionning and taking an opposite position seem to be banned or subject to someone elses strictures and vetting is likly to see me have post no. three deleted as well. As this one is likely to be deleted then I might as well add the following to save you the trouble of having to delete two posts: Ash, whilst you personally may not get illegal copies, the "new songs" on youtube are not there with Ian's permission. Therefore they are illegal and infringe copyright. Because you can hear all of those songs on youtube or through their "mirror" posting on this site doesn't make them legal. And as for being boring, Jesus, how boring is sycophancy? Can't you get disciplined for saying you think someone's view is BORING! Tull believe it or not are also MY favourite band, but if you go to see them at Croydon on the 19th, look for the two empty seats in the row with the seats for the disabled. They would have been mine and my wife's, they'll be empty because quite frankly I think I've now seen the last show by my favourite band, a band I've been seeing and enjoying for the last 40 years. I won't prolong this debate anymore, I've had my say, and I hope in the spirit of free speech this stays up. If anyone wants to get in touch, just PM me, or I'm sure you can find me elsewhere on the net. All the best Pat K
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Post by admin on Mar 4, 2010 22:24:15 GMT
Quizz, I have responded to your question via PM. Col, There was no need to respond by PM, I believe my question could have remained as I don't believe it infringed any of the rules, and in deleting it and editing your original comments you have made my original reply seem totally irrelevent in places and out of context in terms of a response to your original wording. I would have also been happy for your reply to me to be made public. So, not only has the original thread been deleted, I have also had two of my follow up posts, which I don't think infringed any rules deleted. I would like to respond to Ash's comments on another thread but as I said participating in a forum where dialogue, questionning and taking an opposite position seem to be banned or subject to someone elses strictures and vetting is likly to see me have post no. three deleted as well. As this one is likely to be deleted then I might as well add the following to save you the trouble of having to delete two posts: Ash, whilst you personally may not get illegal copies, the "new songs" on youtube are not there with Ian's permission. Therefore they are illegal and infringe copyright. Because you can hear all of those songs on youtube or through their "mirror" posting on this site doesn't make them legal. And as for being boring, Jesus, how boring is sycophancy? Can't you get disciplined for saying you think someone's view is BORING! Tull believe it or not are also MY favourite band, but if you go to see them at Croydon on the 19th, look for the two empty seats in the row with the seats for the disabled. They would have been mine and my wife's, they'll be empty because quite frankly I think I've now seen the last show by my favourite band, a band I've been seeing and enjoying for the last 40 years. I won't prolong this debate anymore, I've had my say, and I hope in the spirit of free speech this stays up. If anyone wants to get in touch, just PM me, or I'm sure you can find me elsewhere on the net. All the best Pat K FYI - I edited my comments prior to your post. It just so happens you were composing your reply when I did it. There was good reason why I responded to you via PM and I explained it there. Once again I will reiterate that any opinion is welcome, but that name-calling and insults is not. Freedom of speech is not carte blanche for a free-for-all. I did not want to put rules into place. I am all for healthy debate and discussion, but for your and all other members information, the entire record collector thread was deleted because not only were there direct personal insults at IA in that thread, but those were also to be found in quotes by other members who have responded which made it very difficult to just remove the offending posts and leave a thread that made any sense. I apologised privately to Maddog for the inconvenience and I assured him that the problem was not with the original article which could be reposted.
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