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Post by falstaff on Feb 6, 2009 2:28:54 GMT
Like few other bands or performers, Tull have amassed a library of outtakes over the years that lesser acts would kill for. This is just another testament to the quality of Ian's songwriting.
What album produced your favorite outtakes, what are your particular favorites and why? For me, I would nominate the outtakes from the Broadsword and the Beast sessions; any number of those songs could have worked nicely on the finished album and, in some cases, could have strengthened it in lieu of other songs; i.e. "Rhythm In Gold" and "Jack Frost and the Hooded Crow".
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Post by tullistray on Feb 6, 2009 5:53:21 GMT
Like few other bands or performers, Tull have amassed a library of outtakes over the years that lesser acts would kill for. This is just another testament to the quality of Ian's songwriting. What album produced your favorite outtakes, what are your particular favorites and why? For me, I would nominate the outtakes from the Broadsword and the Beast sessions; any number of those songs could have worked nicely on the finished album and, in some cases, could have strengthened it in lieu of other songs; i.e. "Rhythm In Gold" and "Jack Frost and the Hooded Crow". I am voting for Broadford Bazaar and Coranach, lots of worthy candidates though, I prefer the original P Play, Chateau D"isaster, I believe it has that element to which Vice Count Anderson referred when he has mentioned in the past that what Passion Play and Heavy Horses lacked were the element of humor, this is rectified on the original Play for the simple fact that Martin's feathers are really smooth. As to whether other acts would "kill" for them I may be less in agreement. One thing I have noticed in my decades of serious, unbroken Tulling, is that while not quite never, rarely are people who are not already Tull fans converted. They hate them and thats it. And judging by those of name stature that have covered Tull material, with the notable exception of Fairport Convention (and I sincerely doubt they would ever have covered a Tull tune had not several of their members of the past 30 years at one time been in Anderson's employ) thinking specifically of Iron Maiden and Metallica, I would just as soon that no one covers Tull material, as you might guess I am less than fond of either of those outfits, indeed I consider it a minor embarrassment, as well as Tony Iommi having been "in" Tull for ten minutes which the world at large, to the extent they mention Tull at all, it's Tony Iommi, Ian's codpiece, or David Dee Palmers sex change. The stuff about D Palmer having once also been a member of the Grenadier (sp?) guard and concertmaster for the LSO lack the salacious element that the human race loves to suck down til they are cross eyed. Please can everyone's "dirty"laundry please be aired so we can maybe get to stuff that matters. Where is the New Jerusalem game going to be played and what are the odds?
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Post by falstaff on Feb 6, 2009 7:48:42 GMT
You make some great points, Tull are such an unique act that those who don't get their appeal from the start likely never will. However, I'm not really talking about cover versions. What I am talking about is that other acts would have been proud to have written songs with the quality of Tull's and would have put them in featured positions on albums, if they were their own. Tull's discards shame the released output of most bands, in my view.
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Post by maddogfagin on Feb 6, 2009 10:29:50 GMT
Ah yes, Coronach. Another inspired lack of publicity by Chrysalis which meant it did not get issued when the TV series "Blood of the British" was first aired on TV even though the tv and production company were bombarded by people wanting to know where to get the song. Only issued when the programme was repeated and again, no publicity and it remained a "closely guarded secret by Chrysalis - it's name never to be uttered". OK I jest but it just shows how badly Tull have been served in some instances by those who are/were employed as their publicists. Today's rant over with - I'll get back to listening to Tull in Rio, 2007
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Post by nonrabbit on Feb 6, 2009 10:42:06 GMT
Just a quick point tho..slightly off the point...Tull didn't publise the 40th tour as much as I would have thought..no mention certainly in the newspapers that I read in Scotland about the shows. Have they always kept low key(?) and should they "market" themselves more? Falstaff, or anyone, gives us a list of possible songs to chew the fat over ;D
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Post by tullistray on Feb 6, 2009 16:48:38 GMT
Just a quick point tho..slightly off the point...Tull didn't publise the 40th tour as much as I would have thought..no mention certainly in the newspapers that I read in Scotland about the shows. Have they always kept low key(?) and should they "market" themselves more? Falstaff, or anyone, gives us a list of possible songs to chew the fat over ;D Praise the old man and his crew, yes, even at the peak of their popularity there was little or no advertisements of Tull, in some respects the ultimate word of mouth band, or even underground (man). One of the most endearing facets of Jethro Tull in my estimation. I guess I wish he had done a few more interviews in the 70's, I can recall hunting thru the rock mags back then and there would rarely be any mention of them, and when there was it would be someone like Lester Bangs puttin the big stick to them, Jethro Dull you know.
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jioffe
Journeyman
... and the days of my youth!
Posts: 162
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Post by jioffe on Feb 7, 2009 14:30:57 GMT
Just a quick point tho..slightly off the point...Tull didn't publise the 40th tour as much as I would have thought..no mention certainly in the newspapers that I read in Scotland about the shows. Have they always kept low key(?) and should they "market" themselves more? Falstaff, or anyone, gives us a list of possible songs to chew the fat over ;D Praise the old man and his crew, yes, even at the peak of their popularity there was little or no advertisements of Tull, in some respects the ultimate word of mouth band, or even underground (man). One of the most endearing facets of Jethro Tull in my estimation. I guess I wish he had done a few more interviews in the 70's, I can recall hunting thru the rock mags back then and there would rarely be any mention of them, and when there was it would be someone like Lester Bangs puttin the big stick to them, Jethro Dull you know. That Tull have always had a low-key approach to advertising, is one for the 'strange but true' files and whether that was a conscious decision by Chrysalis, IA or anyone else is a matter for conjecture. I also wonder if Tull's 'policy', at the time when they were having greatest chart success, of keeping their 'singles' output completely separate from their albums - something which, I think, was pretty unusual even then - may have contributed to them not gaining a more eclectic fanbase. But I've long thought that Tull have enough potential hit material to, say, release an album specifically aimed at a more 'pop' market which, with the right marketing, could have made an impact on the charts (if they'd felt so inclined). Start with the 4 or 5 standards and add Kelpie, Jack-a-Lynn, Hardliner, Paradise Steakhouse and 2 or 3 others - et voilà! Cheers, Jioffe.
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Post by tullistray on Feb 7, 2009 17:08:04 GMT
Praise the old man and his crew, yes, even at the peak of their popularity there was little or no advertisements of Tull, in some respects the ultimate word of mouth band, or even underground (man). One of the most endearing facets of Jethro Tull in my estimation. I guess I wish he had done a few more interviews in the 70's, I can recall hunting thru the rock mags back then and there would rarely be any mention of them, and when there was it would be someone like Lester Bangs puttin the big stick to them, Jethro Dull you know. That Tull have always had a low-key approach to advertising, is one for the 'strange but true' files and whether that was a conscious decision by Chrysalis, IA or anyone else is a matter for conjecture. I also wonder if Tull's 'policy', at the time when they were having greatest chart success, of keeping their 'singles' output completely separate from their albums - something which, I think, was pretty unusual even then - may have contributed to them not gaining a more eclectic fanbase. But I've long thought that Tull have enough potential hit material to, say, release an album specifically aimed at a more 'pop' market which, with the right marketing, could have made an impact on the charts (if they'd felt so inclined). Start with the 4 or 5 standards and add Kelpie, Jack-a-Lynn, Hardliner, Paradise Steakhouse and 2 or 3 others - et voilà! Cheers, Jioffe. Hey Jioffe, Judging by the more mainstream acts that came to be on Chrysalis, Blondie comes to mind but there are others, of whom, while I struggle to remember particulars because I wasn't a fan of those other acts, I am confident they had adopted a more traditional form of advertizing themselves. I recall Chrysalis to have been created as a vehicle for Tull distribution, ie, basically created specifically for them by that Ellis guy and one other Tull guy I think. And the first labelmates I recall on Chrysalis were people like Steeleye Span and Tir Na Nog, so it was also a more eclectic label than the mainstream money maker it came to be. But my gut feeling, coupled with what seemed patently obvious, is that Tull considered that sort of advertisement unseemly, and at that stage of their career they were doing more than a little well without it. Remember those early seventies years were in many ways a continuation of the aesthetic of the late sixties, where crass advertisement was considered uncool. Tull were not hippies but that part of the hippie way did fit nicely with something that was innate already in their character.
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Post by nonrabbit on Feb 7, 2009 18:27:55 GMT
Here's a new posting on utube - the hour long documentary on the first 20 years of the band. It covers a bit about advertising the band in the early days. Most of you may have seen this before ....
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jioffe
Journeyman
... and the days of my youth!
Posts: 162
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Post by jioffe on Feb 7, 2009 18:59:37 GMT
That Tull have always had a low-key approach to advertising, is one for the 'strange but true' files and whether that was a conscious decision by Chrysalis, IA or anyone else is a matter for conjecture. I also wonder if Tull's 'policy', at the time when they were having greatest chart success, of keeping their 'singles' output completely separate from their albums - something which, I think, was pretty unusual even then - may have contributed to them not gaining a more eclectic fanbase. But I've long thought that Tull have enough potential hit material to, say, release an album specifically aimed at a more 'pop' market which, with the right marketing, could have made an impact on the charts (if they'd felt so inclined). Start with the 4 or 5 standards and add Kelpie, Jack-a-Lynn, Hardliner, Paradise Steakhouse and 2 or 3 others - et voilà! Cheers, Jioffe. Hey Jioffe, Judging by the more mainstream acts that came to be on Chrysalis, Blondie comes to mind but there are others, of whom, while I struggle to remember particulars because I wasn't a fan of those other acts, I am confident they had adopted a more traditional form of advertizing themselves. I recall Chrysalis to have been created as a vehicle for Tull distribution, ie, basically created specifically for them by that Ellis guy and one other Tull guy I think. And the first labelmates I recall on Chrysalis were people like Steeleye Span and Tir Na Nog, so it was also a more eclectic label than the mainstream money maker it came to be. But my gut feeling, coupled with what seemed patently obvious, is that Tull considered that sort of advertisement unseemly, and at that stage of their career they were doing more than a little well without it. Remember those early seventies years were in many ways a continuation of the aesthetic of the late sixties, where crass advertisement was considered uncool. Tull were not hippies but that part of the hippie way did fit nicely with something that was innate already in their character. Interesting that you put the lack of promotion down to a hippie ideal, as that'd be my explanation for separating the singles and album markets. While there could be a more cynical explanation, as a quasi-hippie at the time (and still!), my reading of this was, "We know our real fans are going to buy albums and so our albums will be filler and rip-off free and guaranteed to reflect our true musical expression" and was certainly part of my early attraction to Tull. If we're right with our reasoning on both of these aspects (maybe we need another Q&A!), it does seem ironic that the arch-hippie should become the arch-capitalist so soon after! Maybe we should decry LitP as Tull's sell-out album - or was that part of the plan from the start! Hm, the clot thickens! Cheers, Jioffe.
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Post by steelmonkey on Feb 7, 2009 19:33:20 GMT
Yeah...by the time they got to MU and Repeat...things had changed and I felt pickpocketed to pay for two whole albums to get one new song each
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Post by maddogfagin on Feb 8, 2009 8:46:58 GMT
Here's a new posting on utube - the hour long documentary on the first 20 years of the band. It covers a bit about advertising the band in the early days. Most of you may have seen this before .... Excellent find nonrabbit. I was invited to the filming of the Anne Nightingale part of the documentary but my efforts ended up on the cutting room floor. I did get a mention in the final credits though - funny old world. The other video is a gem as well Thanks for posting
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Post by maddogfagin on Feb 8, 2009 9:26:53 GMT
Hey Jioffe, Judging by the more mainstream acts that came to be on Chrysalis, Blondie comes to mind but there are others, of whom, while I struggle to remember particulars because I wasn't a fan of those other acts, I am confident they had adopted a more traditional form of advertizing themselves. I recall Chrysalis to have been created as a vehicle for Tull distribution, ie, basically created specifically for them by that Ellis guy and one other Tull guy I think. And the first labelmates I recall on Chrysalis were people like Steeleye Span and Tir Na Nog, so it was also a more eclectic label than the mainstream money maker it came to be. But my gut feeling, coupled with what seemed patently obvious, is that Tull considered that sort of advertisement unseemly, and at that stage of their career they were doing more than a little well without it. Remember those early seventies years were in many ways a continuation of the aesthetic of the late sixties, where crass advertisement was considered uncool. Tull were not hippies but that part of the hippie way did fit nicely with something that was innate already in their character. Interesting that you put the lack of promotion down to a hippie ideal, as that'd be my explanation for separating the singles and album markets. While there could be a more cynical explanation, as a quasi-hippie at the time (and still!), my reading of this was, "We know our real fans are going to buy albums and so our albums will be filler and rip-off free and guaranteed to reflect our true musical expression" and was certainly part of my early attraction to Tull. If we're right with our reasoning on both of these aspects (maybe we need another Q&A!), it does seem ironic that the arch-hippie should become the arch-capitalist so soon after! Maybe we should decry LitP as Tull's sell-out album - or was that part of the plan from the start! Hm, the clot thickens! Cheers, Jioffe. Have to agree with you. I reckon the plan always was to concentrate on albums from day one and singles for the "hit" records and popularity might come along. At least with all his wealth, IA has put something back (Strathaired, fish farming & employment, a radio station etc) and not frittered it away on luxury ships (can't spell yacght), swimming pools in the shape of a flute - I could go on.
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jioffe
Journeyman
... and the days of my youth!
Posts: 162
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Post by jioffe on Feb 8, 2009 19:49:16 GMT
Here's a new posting on utube - the hour long documentary on the first 20 years of the band. It covers a bit about advertising the band in the early days. Most of you may have seen this before .... Well I haven't and am looking forward to watching it tonight after tea, so many thanks for the alert! Cheers, Jioffe.
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jioffe
Journeyman
... and the days of my youth!
Posts: 162
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Post by jioffe on Feb 8, 2009 19:55:48 GMT
Yeah...by the time they got to MU and Repeat...things had changed and I felt pickpocketed to pay for two whole albums to get one new song each Capitalist bastards! Still, you know what they say. You pays your money... Cheers, Jioffe.
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rebecca
Master Craftsman
Posts: 458
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Post by rebecca on Feb 8, 2009 20:20:23 GMT
I've got that. Every time I see it I always wonder if I know anybody in it. If you see anyone, let me know.
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jioffe
Journeyman
... and the days of my youth!
Posts: 162
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Post by jioffe on Feb 8, 2009 21:17:41 GMT
Have to agree with you. I reckon the plan always was to concentrate on albums from day one and singles for the "hit" records and popularity might come along. At least with all his wealth, IA has put something back (Strathaired, fish farming & employment, a radio station etc) and not frittered it away on luxury ships (can't spell yacght), swimming pools in the shape of a flute - I could go on. It's spelt 'Y-A-C-H-T' but pronounced 'Throat-warbler mangrove' (well, in the absence of Ryan, somebody's got to fly the Python flag!). Yes, I suppose you have a point (and not forgetting charidy, mate). One notch up to the old bugger and his good works! Cheers, Jioffe.
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Post by maddogfagin on Feb 9, 2009 9:15:20 GMT
Have to agree with you. I reckon the plan always was to concentrate on albums from day one and singles for the "hit" records and popularity might come along. At least with all his wealth, IA has put something back (Strathaired, fish farming & employment, a radio station etc) and not frittered it away on luxury ships (can't spell yacght), swimming pools in the shape of a flute - I could go on. It's spelt 'Y-A-C-H-T' but pronounced 'Throat-warbler mangrove' (well, in the absence of Ryan, somebody's got to fly the Python flag!). Yes, I suppose you have a point (and not forgetting charidy, mate). One notch up to the old bugger and his good works! Cheers, Jioffe. I still watch the re-runs on Sky of "....Circus" and end up in howls of laughter and of course dear Spike Milligan from the Q series which I hope will re-run sometime on Sky
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