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Post by 3chordtrick on Dec 14, 2008 0:02:03 GMT
Hi My name is Gerry and I live in Bath, UK. I have just discovered and joined this forum. I have seen JT about 20 times – firstly in 1974 in the Usher Hall Edinburgh and last April in Salisbury, Wiltshire. Introductions over – can I ask the members view on IA’s sacking of Jon Noyce and Andy Giddings. It would appear that they noticed they had been sacked when they were moved from the “current members” to the “previous members” listings on the official JT website. Amazingly, Jon Noyce appeared as a “guest” at the JT Salisbury show in April. That was the first I was aware that he was a” guest musician”. IA is, alongside P Townshend, perhaps the most creative musician in British rock – but he is, for sure, one of the most difficult people to work with and has no “sensitivity” when dealing with “redundancies” within the group. I am looking forward to becoming involved in this forum as, from what I have seen thus far, there are many devoted JT fans out there willing to offer intelligent debate.
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Post by tullistray on Dec 14, 2008 4:09:41 GMT
Hi My name is Gerry and I live in Bath, UK. I have just discovered and joined this forum. I have seen JT about 20 times – firstly in 1974 in the Usher Hall Edinburgh and last April in Salisbury, Wiltshire. Introductions over – can I ask the members view on IA’s sacking of Jon Noyce and Andy Giddings. It would appear that they noticed they had been sacked when they were moved from the “current members” to the “previous members” listings on the official JT website. Amazingly, Jon Noyce appeared as a “guest” at the JT Salisbury show in April. That was the first I was aware that he was a” guest musician”. IA is, alongside P Townshend, perhaps the most creative musician in British rock – but he is, for sure, one of the most difficult people to work with and has no “sensitivity” when dealing with “redundancies” within the group. I am looking forward to becoming involved in this forum as, from what I have seen thus far, there are many devoted JT fans out there willing to offer intelligent debate. I admit I have little else than my gut to go on, and yes I am painfully aware of what occured in 70 and 80, to my mind, utterly different circumstances, but that same gut is telling me it is not likely either learned of their parting via the website or even that there was permanence to the decision. I know a signifigant percentage of the hard core fans hold a dim view of Ian the human, and such interaction I have had with one ex member face to face I believe was told in confidence and should stay so. I tend to counter that in my mind with a different face to face on Skye in 82 with his farm manager Ian Mackinnon who had also managed the Maison Rouge mobile unit and told me, after having picked me up hitching, that he could not imagine working for a finer gentleman. If he is indeed difficult to work with it makes it hard to explain Martin staying for 40 years, Doane for 26, Dave for 16, Andy for 13 and Jon for 11. I do believe that Tull never has been a "party" band in the sense of a travelling rock and roll band having too much fun, indeed that is a very small part of my attraction to them. Personally I am sure I felt no need for a change probably ever, and certainly not with the last unit, possibly the most under rated/valued in the bands history. In small part I liken it to Art Blakey's Jazzmessengers who had countless changes through out their history, one time Messenger Branford Marsalis' book, "Hard Bop Academy", encapsulates that situation well with that title but nobody ever accused Blakey of being guilty of torment, though to be sure there is a marked difference in that tens of ex Messengers left to their own legendary careers whereas w Tull a handful arrived as minor legends , the 5 Fairport contributors, I guess 6 if you count Ric, Eddie Jobson arrived w a bit of hoopla, but none of the Tulls left to form much of a legend. In closing my latest rant I must say that Tull is entering their 41st year of continuous operation, many of which have left me quite spellbound albeit steadfastly out of fashion, a fact for which I have consistently extended IA lengths of rope that could circle the globe several times, a fully blindered Tull fan. Now while I have spoken over the net w both of our recently severed friends, I would think it unseemly to ask of the reason for their departure, although to their face it is possible I might ask, but not as some faceless twit on the net. Mostly I just extended my gratitude for their well worthwhile contributions.
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Post by nonrabbit on Dec 14, 2008 9:50:44 GMT
Hi My name is Gerry and I live in Bath, UK. I have just discovered and joined this forum. Hi Gerry/3chordtrick WElcome great to meet you and have you contributing here! Bath is a beautiful city, haven't been there for years, must look even more beautiful at Xmas. Just a thought have Tull played there recently ??
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Post by nonrabbit on Dec 14, 2008 10:06:18 GMT
can I ask the members view on IA’s sacking of Jon Noyce and Andy Giddings. As far as I'm aware no one on this Forum actuallys knows Anderson or has had any fairly in depth conversations with him (pity) and even if they had it's down to that persons viewpoint as well as to what they would make of him. So far since I've been studying Tull in depth I would like to see him being a bit more accessible however I know that he has gone out of his way to attend Tull get togethers. On a hunch - I don't think he likes to rock the boat too much now on an information/music basis - I WOULD like to be proved wrong on that As I always say though given my fairly limited experience of band psychology and inter relations - it can be a very fraught and complex state of affairs!! All this creativity and expression flying around clashing with various degrees of ego !!!!
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Post by 3chordtrick on Dec 14, 2008 10:31:34 GMT
Nonrabbit – thank you for your welcome. JT have never played Bath, although Bath does have a council owned Pavilion which has hosted (in the 60’s) such historic acts as The Beatles, The Byrds, and, on 2 occasions, The Who. In fact, The Who were such a hard working band that they played Bath just after Who’s Next was released in 1971. JT normally play Bristol (12 mile distance) and over recent years, the smaller venues, such a the City Hall in Salisbury, Wiltshire – 20 miles away. I Have see JT twice now in Salisbury – a very nice, intimate venue. Tullistray – thanks for your comments. You obviously have greater experience than me of the situations and you summary of past/current membership is interesting. Yes, IA must be commended for keeping JT so fresh and vibrant over the years, and it is this that has made JT such a brilliant act. IA is one of the most creative musicians, IMHO, in British rock. He is intelligent and would appear to have a great sense of humour. However, Glenn Cornick was not happy by the way he was informed of his departure from JT in 1970. That said, IA would not have had an easy job to ensure that JT remained one of the best bands in the world and I forever appreciate the music of Tull. I have loved them since I first saw them on BBC’s TOTP playing Witches Promise – was it really back in 1970 !
PS. Technical question - How can I add a little picture against my name, like nonrabbit has. Great picture if IA by the way. I must have something I can add.
Regards
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Post by nonrabbit on Dec 14, 2008 15:22:50 GMT
PS. Technical question - How can I add a little picture against my name, like nonrabbit has. Great picture if IA by the way. I must have something I can add. Regards Thanks 3chord(if I may shorten your name;) Apologies if I say something you already know and also it's a case of trial and error especially with the type and size of pic you choose - best to go for a smaller one I think ! Go to Profile/Modify profile/Personal Information/Avatar Url... Put the "html......" address which I get from Tinypics. Upload pic on tinypics and choose the "Direct Link for Layouts" address ie highlight/copy. Put this into the aforementioned Avatar Url box and then go to the bottom of the page (roughly) and click "modify profile" button. I found that I had to "jiggle" -(God we're getting really techno now ) the pic size ie ..in the "Avatar Width" and "Avatar Height " box. I played about with the height and width sizes (by deleting the figures already there) until the pic focused better !! Hope that works out and after reading back what I've just posted - YOU'LL be sorry you asked ;D ;D
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Post by bluehare on Dec 14, 2008 18:01:04 GMT
Hi, 3chordtrick – Nice to meet you. You raise an issue that I’ve seen around here in other posts from time to time – that of Ian being a bit of a butt when it comes to dealing with band members in particular. I keep meaning to add my two cents to the discussion, but somehow or other, I keep forgetting! To do this, I have to go way, way back to the dark recesses of my mind and trudge out memories from my youth. I started playing musical instruments in school when I was 8, and reluctantly stopped playing when I entered my third year of college. Through various programs I not only played under my own schools’ directors, but was fortunate to be able to play under other schools’ conductors, substitute conductors, and guest conductors. I even got to know a few of one of my daughters’ conductors when she was in school programs. Of all the conductors I played under, I would say 3 were most definitely geniuses (and 1 of my daughter’s was…). All 3 I would say were troubled geniuses and my college director was not only a troubled genius, but he also had a massive ego! But he was so endearing and genuine it was impossible not to like him. He knew how talented he was, and he expected all of us to meet his standards. This was not only to make him look good, but he was also trying to get the most out of us as well. These three teachers all were extremely temperamental. During the height of band and orchestra season, they didn’t sleep much. They were quite cranky. And they all threw things when they were not happy: batons, musical scores, eyeglasses, and more than a few empty chairs. They did not throw these things indiscriminately. They threw them at their “tormentors”….students who were not doing what was expected of them. I can tell you….I was relieved never to have been on the receiving end of one of those aerial assaults. But I can also tell you that the students who were, definitely had a different impression of our teacher than I did. Many of them quit playing. Many of them should have quit because they weren’t taking things seriously anyway. I write all this blather to make the point that Ian, to me, is very much like my teachers. He is a temperamental musical genius...who may not always be socially appropriate. I recently read an article that was a link on this site somewhere……it was from 2002. In it, Ian talks about a certain bandmate who was not taking things seriously…was not doing his homework. He said he’d sent arrangements to Martin 2-3 months earlier, and Martin had shown up with everything mastered. The other mate constantly needed to be reminded (I might be paraphrasing here…). The bandmates at the time were: Martin, Doane, Andy, and Jon. Considering how long they’d already been in the band, nobody could have been considered a rookie. It wasn’t Martin, and Doane’s still with the band. Just saying… I don’t condone people being inconsiderate to others, but I do understand it to a certain extent. I also know that many of my bandmates back then also had egos, and very thin skin. They also held the band director solely accountable, and didn’t take any responsibility for their roles in either leaving, or being ousted. Like many here, I take what most former bandmates of Ian’s say with a grain of salt. It’s almost always one-sided. As someone else has pointed out on this site before, apparently Ian hasn’t publicly badmouthed any of them by name. Also, they might not approve of the way they were informed, if indeed that was how they were informed. But again, we don’t know the circumstances. I am inclined to believe that when someone is wounded sometimes they see things differently than what happened in reality. It’s just human nature. This is the longest post I think I’ve ever written anywhere! Sorry for that! Ultimately, I think it’s been said by Ian himself that he is a hard taskmaster. But like all hard taskmasters – he said – he pushes himself as hard as he pushes everyone else. Hard or not, it’s difficult to argue with the results!
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Post by 3chordtrick on Dec 15, 2008 16:10:03 GMT
Thanks bluehare. Yes, I do support most of your views – although I am not a musician and have never played an instrument. I believe IA to be a genius and many people obviously agree and have enjoyed his and JT’s music for over 40 years now. However, I read an article somewhere that Jon N is blind in one eye and IA was looking/talking to him. However, Jon N could not see IA, thereby causing IA to shout at Jon N. Not the way for a person to treat another person. However, IA was, no doubt, seeking his usual perfection – a perfection which we all enjoy in the form of JT’s brilliant music. At least IA did not throw a chair at Jon N.
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Post by 3chordtrick on Dec 15, 2008 20:57:17 GMT
Hi nonrabbit thanks for the info on how to insert a little pic - I have also noted that there is an area in the forum which somebody has kindly provided. My next challenge is to try it. regards 3chordtrick
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Post by bluehare on Dec 15, 2008 23:00:12 GMT
Well, 3chordtrick - you've got a great sign-in name. It'll be fun to see what image you come up with to go with it!
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tommie
Master Craftsman
Posts: 392
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Post by tommie on Dec 16, 2008 7:08:24 GMT
Post deleted by Col
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Post by admin on Dec 16, 2008 11:17:11 GMT
Come on tommie, you know perfectly well that personal attacks on people are not acceptable here. That does not mean just forum members only, it includes Ian Anderson, other band members or anybody else too.
You are perfectly entitled to express your views negative as well as positive but can you please do so without resorting to abuse.
Thank you.
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tommie
Master Craftsman
Posts: 392
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Post by tommie on Dec 16, 2008 21:45:52 GMT
Ok. Sorry, Col. Is this better? (seriously):
Ian the musician: A Genius
Ian the social human being: Cruel and hurtful.
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