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Post by geostrehl on Dec 30, 2017 1:51:26 GMT
I think I'm in the minority when I say that I prefer Ian's voice now. There's something about the "struggle" that I really enjoy. The way he stands up on his tippy-toes and flicks his middle finger on his right hand while singing "Weathercock" is fantastic! So, I'm not trying to get into a debate about Ian then vs now. Most will prefer a young Ian's voice over his current sound, which I can totally understand.
My question is this:
What song(s) do you prefer hearing with Ian's "later" voice versus his "early" voice?
I like the bits he sings in Witch's Promise on the Rock Opera tour. Same with Weathercock and Cheap Day Return.
Thoughts?
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Post by JTull 007 on Dec 30, 2017 3:42:29 GMT
I think I'm in the minority when I say that I prefer Ian's voice now. There's something about the "struggle" that I really enjoy. The way he stands up on his tippy-toes and flicks his middle finger on his right hand while singing "Weathercock" is fantastic! So, I'm not trying to get into a debate about Ian then vs now. Most will prefer a young Ian's voice over his current sound, which I can totally understand. My question is this: What song(s) do you prefer hearing with Ian's "later" voice versus his "early" voice? I like the bits he sings in Witch's Promise on the Rock Opera tour. Same with Weathercock and Cheap Day Return. Thoughts? All this angst about Ian's voice is somewhat annoying in itself... since 1984. If he listened to critics he would have retired after Under Wraps ... I've noticed changes since 1979. When I hear songs LIVE I feel the years of change in a different way. It always gets better !!! OMG !!! My God - Roma, 23 Giugno 2017
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Post by maddogfagin on Dec 30, 2017 16:16:20 GMT
I think I'm in the minority when I say that I prefer Ian's voice now. There's something about the "struggle" that I really enjoy. The way he stands up on his tippy-toes and flicks his middle finger on his right hand while singing "Weathercock" is fantastic! So, I'm not trying to get into a debate about Ian then vs now. Most will prefer a young Ian's voice over his current sound, which I can totally understand. My question is this: What song(s) do you prefer hearing with Ian's "later" voice versus his "early" voice? I like the bits he sings in Witch's Promise on the Rock Opera tour. Same with Weathercock and Cheap Day Return. Thoughts? All this angst about Ian's voice is somewhat annoying in itself... since 1984. If he listened to critics he would have retired after Under Wraps ... I've noticed changes since 1979. When I hear songs LIVE I feel the years of change in a different way. It always gets better !!! OMG !!! My God - Roma, 23 Giugno 2017 Ian's vocals on Budapest and Change of Horses, album versions, are the bee's knees. 10/10 and gold star all around with no detention for a month
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Post by steelmonkey on Dec 30, 2017 16:41:17 GMT
Requiem, the way he sung it on the Opera tour, could not have been better at anytime in his career.
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Post by geostrehl on Dec 30, 2017 19:00:44 GMT
Requiem, the way he sung it on the Opera tour, could not have been better at anytime in his career. YES!!! Truer words have never been spoken. I really enjoyed the Opera tour. Saw it several times. I'd see it again and again and again if I could. Come on DVD, come out! Prosperous Pasture's melody is just as good as anything on the Aqualung album. From a compositional point of view, it's probably better.
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Post by steelmonkey on Jan 1, 2018 18:03:37 GMT
I know..those 5 songs are orphans..I wish they and a couple more: Tea with Princess and Hare in Wine cup could be slapped together as some sort of release for Tull fans like ourselves who know they are out there but can't quite get our hands on them, done right.
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Post by atomicsynth on Mar 23, 2018 16:10:54 GMT
What song(s) do you prefer hearing with Ian's "later" voice versus his "early" voice? I like the bits he sings in Witch's Promise on the Rock Opera tour. Same with Weathercock and Cheap Day Return. Thoughts? None, sorry to say.
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Post by 61jtull on Apr 1, 2018 23:58:13 GMT
Sadly, the best songs for Ian to sing live are songs recorded after 1984. He lost his previous tone and range, and struggles to reach all of the notes on the classic Tull songs. His voice is still appealing, but a much different singing style since his throat problems effected his voice(Starting in the late 70's and being obvious by 1984's Under Wraps Album/Tour). I know people overstate the voice problems, and some of it is age related I'm sure, but his live concert voice greatly diminished in the early 80's.....no way to sugar-coat it!
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Post by atomicsynth on Apr 2, 2018 17:56:42 GMT
Sadly, the best songs for Ian to sing live are songs recorded after 1984. He lost his previous tone and range, and struggles to reach all of the notes on the classic Tull songs. His voice is still appealing, but a much different singing style since his throat problems effected his voice(Starting in the late 70's and being obvious by 1984's Under Wraps Album/Tour). I know people overstate the voice problems, and some of it is age related I'm sure, but his live concert voice greatly diminished in the early 80's.....no way to sugar-coat it! I attended both the TAAB 2 and Homo Erraticus tours, none since. It's much more than range loss and timbre change which I first noticed when Crest Of A Knave was released. A DJ friend of mine was going to do a phone interview that day with IA and she called me in advance regarding suggestion of questions to ask. The first thing I said was to ask him what's wrong with his voice. Back to the two above mentioned tours, He struggled to produce sung vocals as many noted, but even more striking than range and tone is that the throat problem causes noticeable delays in his rhythm to the point where he is often behind the band. His rhythm is then altered into a sort of round-off. The posturing upward of his neck seems to be his way to get through the strain of singing. I can't avoid noting it doesn't happen on the associated recordings and digital processing, ie pitch correction is likely employed. But that's a mainstay of both records and even tours for many artists anyway. Digital recording also allows rhythm correction. I admire him greatly for pressing on though. He's lost nothing on flute. I understand fully the sentiment.
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Post by atomicsynth on Apr 2, 2018 18:13:15 GMT
OMG !!! My God - Roma, 23I want to agree but the inability to maintain sung rhythm due to his difficulty is very pronounced. Everything is late. (If my quote is wrong person in origin, the nested formatting gets confusing :>)
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Post by atomicsynth on Apr 2, 2018 19:04:04 GMT
And he's not the only one it's happened to. Adele has said she may never sing again after blowing out her voice on her recent tour.
The only one I know who actually recovered in full is Steven Tyler who sounded absolutely amazing on his solo tour outing of a few years back. I saw him (and met him!) with my son at The Warner Theatre in DC (and he sang a lot of Aerosmith).
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Post by nonrabbit on Apr 2, 2018 19:05:52 GMT
Sadly, the best songs for Ian to sing live are songs recorded after 1984. He lost his previous tone and range, and struggles to reach all of the notes on the classic Tull songs. His voice is still appealing, but a much different singing style since his throat problems effected his voice(Starting in the late 70's and being obvious by 1984's Under Wraps Album/Tour). I know people overstate the voice problems, and some of it is age related I'm sure, but his live concert voice greatly diminished in the early 80's.....no way to sugar-coat it! I attended both the TAAB 2 and Homo Erraticus tours, none since. It's much more than range loss and timbre change which I first noticed when Crest Of A Knave was released. A DJ friend of mine was going to do a phone interview that day with IA and she called me in advance regarding suggestion of questions to ask. The first thing I said was to ask him what's wrong with his voice. Back to the two above mentioned tours, He struggled to produce sung vocals as many noted, but even more striking than range and tone is that the throat problem causes noticeable delays in his rhythm to the point where he is often behind the band. His rhythm is then altered into a sort of round-off. The posturing upward of his neck seems to be his way to get through the strain of singing. I can't avoid noting it doesn't happen on the associated recordings and digital processing, ie pitch correction is likely employed. But that's a mainstay of both records and even tours for many artists anyway. I admire him greatly for pressing on though. He's lost nothing on flute. I understand fully the sentiment. Very good analysis
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Post by futureshock on Apr 4, 2018 7:42:09 GMT
And he's not the only one it's happened to. Adele has said she may never sing again after blowing out her voice on her recent tour. The only one I know who actually recovered in full is Steven Tyler who sounded absolutely amazing on his solo tour outing of a few years back. I saw him (and met him!) with my son at The Warner Theatre in DC (and he sang a lot of Aerosmith). I do wonder about this whole topic of "vocal condition", because there are at least two angles it seems to be approached from, for singing. One is the standard vocal warmup exercises and institution-approved coaching routines working to control the resonance and articulation. Very lame! The other is the idea of vocal therapy where the structure and mechanics of the voice are dealt with after some damage or stress has happened. I MUST say this: I've recorded an album, felt I could greatly improve my vocal tone after that, that I heard great variations in the quality of my voice when trying warmup exercises, and been all over the Internet, looking for instruction (videos, books, audio, tips, testimonials, forums, etc.), and there seems to be a HUGE gap in the information when it comes to what I consider a fundamental of vocal training (and rehab), which is how to condition, exercise and train the voice quality to produce the most capacities, best tone, best range and most control. 95% of all vocal training totally avoids this topic of vocal tone, the mechanics/quality and control of the voice. This is a different area of focus than what usually goes for vocal training (that standard collegiate/routine/graded singers training curriculum I figure is just about useless to me), and wanders closer to the voice therapy side of things where the person is looking to find, control, condition and develop the voice in all it's qualities and possibilities. The voice is somewhat elusive to deal with because it isn't directly felt, like a bicep or a hand muscle, the voice is controlled by everything around the vocal cords instead. Through years of searching for the ways to exercise the voice mechanics I've worked on each way, and have tried many if not all of them in combinations, and it's the combinations of exercises for things where the voice responds, almost never by doing isolated exercises. There's a range of areas to deal with; diaphragm, rib cage, throat muscles, tongue (actually multiple areas of it), lower jaw, head position, and the inclusion or exclusion of actually using the voice or note position while doing these exercises. I have no idea what happened when anyone else had voice problems, but by searching the Internet, I do wonder (and in some cases have found out), that many singers have been getting bad and dangerous advice about how to practice, develop, care for and perform with the voice. Why would Adele wipe out her voice? And why anyone else? There are variables; physical and other factors possible. Dehydration while singing could cause major problems. Singing at high performance while on diuretics could cause one hell of a problem, and diuretics would naturally associate with dehydration anyway. Then there's the scream/growl/overly loud throat tightening which could simply mis-shape or damage the cords or things around the vocal cords. If you've ever practiced this stuff and found yourself going hoarse for an hour, you know how easy it is to screw up the mechanics of the voice! The list goes on. But the question keeps coming up; why do so many pro-level voice instructors have such little involvement or awareness of, the specific exercises and general knowledge of supporting voice quality development for the positive? I have found only two sources of this information other than my own direct experimenting: 1) Gordon Lightfoot said in an interview after some major surgery, that the voice could be recovered and that it was largely a thing about driving the voice from the diaphragm (and that's very important that the diaphragm drive the voice and not the throat!), but that's far from being the whole list if issues, and 2) a voice training book called "The Complete Vocal Workout, by Roger Kain", which has exercises for both male and female, (isn't everything, I've discovered, but it's at least on-topic!) for developing the actual instrument of the voice. It's like finding the instructions for how to make a ukulele into a $4000 Custom Fender Strat by making lots of adjustments to the ukulele, and then saying "well! who knew?!". The voice for most people, is already there, the natural instrument is there waiting to be set up properly, but the instrument needs to be adjusted, the muscles need exercising the entire apparatus needs to be positioned, liberated and controlled, or as they say with new guitars when just purchased, they need "to be professionally set up", which is kind of like the muscular version of what a course of chiropractic work would do; slightly alter how things associate, free up some mechanisms and make it all controllable, reveal and realize it's full capacity, with some ways of monitoring and training it. Some singers may luck out and have the singing of songs give them a combination of exercises that works for them, but if they don't know what it is, they can lose it for good unnecessarily. I'm sure there are millions of people like me who sporadically get a better and different quality of tone out of there voice and want to find out how to train and develop the vocal tone without getting sidetracked with the ineffective approaches out of most voice coaches. The results can be a spectacular difference, but elusive to understand and repeat. It's so difficult to find this info! I have found that keeping a list while trying things out has worked to at least narrow some things down and find what works for me, but I'm far from done exploring this elusive topic. That's how I discovered that the combination of exercises is where the results come from, it's not really possible to train the voice doing one isolated exercise at a time. Finding the exercises most suitable for each person would NOT be a standard singing training program, but more of a body-building-like athletic training program using audio as a monitor and coach, rather than stats and numbers. Everyone would have a custom-selected program. Training all the parts, and then when using the voice in performance, to relax all that stuff and just let the relaxed voice sail, resonant, richly textured, unstrained and unstressed. Similar to how a sports person exercises in one way, but the performance involves different things like mild warmups and cool-downs. I've read the warnings about how to be relaxed when singing. I agree! I wouldn't do these exercises within 3 hours of singing, but some of them would be naturally part of a warmup routine for performance. The natural capacity and tone of people's voices, without any training, has enormous variation, and I'm starting to get some good understanding of why that is. The mechanics of what's going on has enormous variation, throughout a range of people, even though we don't think about that, we think it would be more the same. The DIFFERENCE one can experience in one's own voice, by doing vocal exercises that work on the mechanics of what's going on, like I said, to find, liberate, develop and control the voice, I think is still poorly understood, it's an area to be explored far more, and there's a lot of phony teachers and phony teaching out there to avoid. Probably nothing I've said here will help anyone, but at least I think I understand why?
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