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Post by nonrabbit on May 20, 2009 17:03:08 GMT
What do you think if Tull play without Martin /Anderson etc etc ??
AND/OR
Who was Tull's best line-up?
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Post by maddogfagin on May 20, 2009 17:25:13 GMT
What do you think if Tull play without Martin /Anderson etc etc ?? AND/OR Who was Tull's best line-up? Not an option with neither IA or MB. Tull without MB - The IA Band Best line-up - you've opened up a can of worms there ms nonrabbit Drums: Clive Bunker Guitar: Matin Barre Keyboards: Andy Giddings Additional keyboards and orchestration: Dave/Dee Palmer Bass: Dave Pegg Vocals/Flute: Ian Anderson
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Post by bluehare on May 20, 2009 17:52:58 GMT
Ooh! Nice, shiny new thread, nonrabbit! Snagged maddog's last comment from the other thread to answer here... This is sort of a roundabout comment as I don't think Martin or Doane have ever been absent voluntarily...it's always been for medical reasons. In a temporary setting, it does make sense for Ian to rest. But he's either a workaholic, or a stage-aholic, or a rolling stone. That's a moot point; he'll tour anyway. In those cases, I would definitely like to see Florian. I like Florian. And I like that he is allowed to interpret the guitar parts to suit his own voice. If it ever happens where Martin leaves the band permanently - I think Martin said in the 40th Anni program that Tull is as much his band as Ian's....something to that effect. (I read it somewhere, I know). I loved the territorial tone of it. Martin is usually so quiet about things. So I can't see him leaving the band unless it is mutually decided that they all call it a day, or unless Ian himself bows out. Can't imagine Ian "letting" Martin go it alone! ;D If Martin ever quits voluntarily, then Ian will have to replace him if he wants Tull to continue. That would be a sad, sad day for me. But I would still go watch the band. And I would hope that Florian was his perma-replacement. It would never be the same, though. (But it won't ever happen..... )
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Post by rockisland on May 20, 2009 20:42:10 GMT
Tull without Martin is just the Ian Anderson band! I probably wouldn't go and see Martin playing Tull stuff by himself as i'd want to see him playing his solo stuff.
Best line up:
Vocals and Flute: Ian Anderson Guitar: Martin Lancelot Barre Keyboards: Andrew Giddings Bass: Dave Pegg Drums: Doane Perry
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tommie
Master Craftsman
Posts: 392
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Post by tommie on May 20, 2009 21:15:43 GMT
Anderson, Abrahams, Evans, Glasscock, Barlow........if my focus were to be the BEST MUSICIANS at their particular instruments...no question
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Post by steelmonkey on May 20, 2009 21:57:57 GMT
With all due respect Tommy, I know the crack is plentiful and cheap in NYC...you should lay off it when you vote. The best of Tull...in terms of instrument compotence is as follows:
Ian Anderson Martin Barre David Pegg Peter John Vetesse Doane Perry
But I'd still rather see 1972 thru 75 Tull onstage again! Those were, in fact, the days!
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Post by TM on May 21, 2009 1:51:37 GMT
With all due respect Tommy, I know the crack is plentiful and cheap in NYC...you should lay off it when you vote. The best of Tull...in terms of instrument compotence is as follows: Ian Anderson Martin Barre David Pegg Peter John Vetesse Doane Perry But I'd still rather see 1972 thru 75 Tull onstage again! Those were, in fact, the days! Maybe some of that crack would help you with your spelling.
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Post by steelmonkey on May 21, 2009 15:45:21 GMT
My computer has a virus called 'spell-uncheck' which randomly mispells werds. I'm not allowed to smoke crack at work anymore...too many burn marks on my notes, or something.
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Post by tullistray on May 21, 2009 16:53:51 GMT
Now this is a query that in some respects has no answer from me. But the difficulty of the proposition is why, I think it is the non Rabbit, proposed it. Ian Martin Jeffrey - in some respects the oddest choice of all as in any practical sense he is the least competent, no contest, of any of the Tull bass players. But if you had the pleasure of watching this engagingly odd gentleman storm around the stage, or are old enough to have seen him, prior to (second) membership in the band reading the London Times with his back turned to the audience as the earliest Tull stormed the Marquee, or that deliciously blank expression in the classic group shot from LITP, the one where Martin is holding a baby, all these make Jeffrey my choice over the wonderful alternatives, including an abiding love t the man in Tull who has been kindest thru the years to Tullies, and has never had anything particularly disparaging to say to the public about Ian which gets huge points from me, Peggy. Barrie John - as a player next to Ian maybe my favorite, such little as I have seen or read from him in interviews shows him to be someone I might not like much. And if he was unhappy around 78 or 79, can any balanced person really fault Ian for intending to do a solo record which turned out not to be? Always will be remarkable to me how many Tullies are willing or eager to hang Ian out to dry on the hearsay of this or that former band member, I usually go for the guy who says jack$h1t in such situations, and that would be IA who I have never seen enter the fray of the blamegame. The airport execution of Glen Cornick will always be a sore point to me, though I can believe as good as he was, maybe behaviors were no longer a fit for the straight laced Tull, he damn sure could do the job as a player and as a guy who appeared to love the job, which I am not sure is true of others equally known who have been in the band. BTW when I give John Evan the high marks I am speaking largely in a visual sense, I consider most/all of the other people who have had the job,(with the exception of the heavy metal poor fit of Don Airey) and particularly Andy Giddings, to be superior players. John Evans onstage persona was perfectly captured by the painting on the inside of Aqualung, and yeah, that guy was hard to replace, I mean, what other band could John Evan and Jeffrey Hammond have been a fit in than Jethro Tull? That strain of Blackpool humor has never been adequately replaced. BTW to the handful of people who may not know, Jeffrey was not a musician at all in any practical professional sense. O he had been in the early bands like the Blades or the John Evan band but had never considered himself a musician. But he is a minor case genius, absorbing IA assignments that must have been considerably more challenging than beat combo assignments, (TAAB, A Passion Play) and delivering it onstage in a manner that could accurately be described as "Tull", clearly this man would have fit with no other rock group of the day, and certainly not with that damn zebra.
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Post by maddogfagin on May 21, 2009 16:55:23 GMT
Wanted to put Maartin Allcock on the list but the bassist/keyboard spot was taken. I always rated him highly in the band. He always seemed genuinely "thrilled" to be on stage and is a great musician as well and one of a small number of players who can pick up an instrument which they've never played before and master it in 2 weeks. He and Dave Pegg turned up at the first UK Convention in 1989 and mingled with the fans for over 2 hours without any hesitation - both giving freely of their time.
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Post by tullistray on May 21, 2009 17:07:07 GMT
Wanted to put Maartin Allcock on the list but the bassist/keyboard spot was taken. I always rated him highly in the band. He always seemed genuinely "thrilled" to be on stage and is a great musician as well and one of a small number of players who can pick up an instrument which they've never played before and master it in 2 weeks. He and Dave Pegg turned up at the first UK Convention in 1989 and mingled with the fans for over 2 hours without any hesitation - both giving freely of their time. Hey Now, how bout the Fairport guys? I have never met one who was not imminently and immediately comfortable and likable and cannot imagine there is a friendlier popular performer (popular with a lower case p, I am not talking Madonna here) than Dave Pegg and in Simon Nicol someone who can challenge IA for off the cuff humor and abiding intelligence, and is moderately more approachable. I think it had to be something of a shock for all Fairports who have also been employed by IA, Pegg, Mattacks,Gerry, Sanders, Leslie and Maart to see the change in cultures between the two entities, though I am sure Pegg had apprised them of tales of entire tours where IA did not speak to anyone, something I have heard or read and take with a massive grain of salt , versus the FC policy of abiding friendliness, both on and off stage.
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Post by nonrabbit on May 21, 2009 17:10:23 GMT
I'm not that happy with this thread myself or at least with the title but I don't think you can change a thread title ?? I suppose I made it in response to the way the Catfish thread was getting a bit bogged down with everything else but Catfish So if it's all right with everyone else we could keep this thread as a sort of "organic" thread a sort of You Can't Go Off Topic " thread in respect to the previous/present band members and what our thought s are.
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Post by tullistray on May 21, 2009 17:14:32 GMT
And to the other part of this question, Tull without Martin is in large part no longer Tull. But if someone can show me an individual who would be a better fit for Martin's part than Maart, that individual would be someone of whom I am not aware. Lots of folks who are aware that Maartin Allcock was in Tull may not be aware of his career otherwise. Although a multi instrumentalist, his true area of expertise is in stringed instruments, not keyboards which he barely played. To capsulize his expertise on various stringed things, Richard Thompson once offered to cut his fingers off, now that is a high compliment.
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Post by maddogfagin on May 21, 2009 17:57:33 GMT
Wanted to put Maartin Allcock on the list but the bassist/keyboard spot was taken. I always rated him highly in the band. He always seemed genuinely "thrilled" to be on stage and is a great musician as well and one of a small number of players who can pick up an instrument which they've never played before and master it in 2 weeks. He and Dave Pegg turned up at the first UK Convention in 1989 and mingled with the fans for over 2 hours without any hesitation - both giving freely of their time. Hey Now, how bout the Fairport guys? I have never met one who was not imminently and immediately comfortable and likable and cannot imagine there is a friendlier popular performer (popular with a lower case p, I am not talking Madonna here) than Dave Pegg and in Simon Nicol someone who can challenge IA for off the cuff humor and abiding intelligence, and is moderately more approachable. I think it had to be something of a shock for all Fairports who have also been employed by IA, Pegg, Mattacks, Sanders, Leslie and Maart to see the change in cultures between the two entities, though I am sure Pegg had apprised them of tales of entire tours where IA did not speak to anyone, something I have heard or read and take with a massive grain of salt , versus the FC policy of abiding friendliness, both on and off stage. Got to agree. I've never read anywhere, as far as I can remember, anyone slagging off Fairport. A more agreeable bunch of musicians you'd have a job to find. Still think that it was a sad day when Maartin left them.
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Post by tullistray on May 21, 2009 18:37:52 GMT
Very very true, I think particularly for those who come to FC with a Tull bent, and I suspect, judging by nearly equal time spent of the FC centric Folk Forum, that well over half Fairport Fanatics are also avid Tull fans. Most of the older guys like me and probably you Maddog, became fans of both about the same time, a very long time ago. With the exception of the Liege and Lief version of FC, (a band who has had as many personnel groupings in their 42 years as Tull) the Maart version would be my second favorite. Having said that they are still highly vibrant and always funny in live performance, and the CD's are still not bad, and usually have a couple real winners on them. One of the best love songs I have heard in the past ten years in Chris Leslie's My Love is in America. A real good example of Maart's ability to crunch in a Tull fashion is evidenced on one of his solo records, OX 15 I think, an ode to his then infant son called Jared on the Floor, also on from Cropredy to Portmeiron (absolutely wonderful live cd from Maart era FC) and on the live show they did in Birmingham in 90, hometown show for Peggy, one of something I think called rock legends, I forget the title, but it do burn where necessary. Or any Maart take on the FC staple Matty Groves, nearly evil, and the real thing unlike many heavy metal acts who try to live in that realm but never nail it as anything but comic book. A small example of the beast that lives within Maarts expansive belly is evidenced on this 92 take from FC 25th at Cropredy, a take on the longtime staple of Matty Groves. If you have never heard the lyric on this centuries old song, an attentive ear is rewarded. www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1PUVQ7Jjrsand a take on My Love is in America www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1EqiZzmvYYso many great versions of FC, here is one from the first version of FC I saw in 74 at the Chicago Opera House! One of the most opulent musical venues in America. This is from the band that included alongside Peggy, Trevor Lucas and a brief return for the tour from the irreplacable Sandy Denny. And a track that has recently re entered the band's repertoire, while its hard to top Trevor's menacing delivery, menacing in a way no ten Black Sabbath's or Metallica could ever hope to be, this is very much down Simon's street, FC with Polly on the Shore from Nine. www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T96fdvtT28
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tommie
Master Craftsman
Posts: 392
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Post by tommie on May 21, 2009 20:54:00 GMT
Hey, SteelMonkey..........that comment was really uncalled for and hurtful. You don't agree with my vote, fine. But, since you don't agree and live in the Bronx, NYC I need to .."...lay off the crack...."?! Nice guy. I may have critized Ian but never personally insulted any members of this board.
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tommie
Master Craftsman
Posts: 392
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Post by tommie on May 21, 2009 21:01:29 GMT
Oh, and........learn how to spell, you freakin' retard. If we ever meet, I'll be sure to show you the Bronx.
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Post by steelmonkey on May 21, 2009 21:17:29 GMT
All right, I take it back about the crack...lived on Grand Concourse, not far from Fordham, in 1979 while working for a company with offices in Manhattan and Tarrytown and trying to save enough money to travel to Europe in the Laker airline days....managed to keep my mouth shut in critical situations ( usually on the 'D' line) and not get my ass kicked!
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Post by steelmonkey on May 21, 2009 21:18:55 GMT
P.S....I'm not retarded...I'm special.
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Post by TM on May 22, 2009 16:06:21 GMT
Okay, now that that's over I'll get us back on track.
Although the line-up from TAAB-Minstrel is probably the majority's favorite, I have to go with the line-up when I became a big Tull fan:
Ian Martin John John Barrie and David
I never did get to see John Glascock play live. Tony Williams filled in for him while he was ill.
Interesting comment from John Bonham on Barriemore Barlow:
"the greatest Rock Drummer England ever produced"
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Post by tullabye on May 23, 2009 6:36:49 GMT
Best Tull lineup: Anderson, Barre, Hammond Hammond, Evans and Bunker
Best Musicians: Anderson, Barre, Glasscock, Evans and Barlowe
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Post by maddogfagin on May 25, 2009 10:48:42 GMT
Very very true, I think particularly for those who come to FC with a Tull bent, and I suspect, judging by nearly equal time spent of the FC centric Folk Forum, that well over half Fairport Fanatics are also avid Tull fans. Most of the older guys like me and probably you Maddog, became fans of both about the same time, a very long time ago. Finally got back to this thread Yep, it's a very long time ago and yes, on reflection, probably became a fan of both bands around the same time. My intro to Tull was in '68 at the Star Hotel in Broadgreen, west Croydon where the landlord ran a small blues club. We saw most of the top bands there and at the Eden Park Hotel near Beckenham and also at the larger venues in London such as the Royal Albert Hall, the Saville theatre and the Royal Festival Hall (David Bowie as a mime artist entertaining during the interval - honest). At that time Tull were one of a number of bands I started to follow and as one by one they fell by the wayside, Tull seemed to remain a constant part of my life. Apart from the joy of buying the record releases and seeing some of the early concerts, two things really stand out for me. Seeing IA and Co on TOTP with LITP and my Dad moaning about them and the joy of hearing Benefit for the first time. Loved This Was and I still have my well worn mono copy, raved over Stand Up but to me Benefit was the confirmation of a life long musical passion. Apart from IA, Martin Barre is and always will be, the core player in Tull.
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Post by steelmonkey on May 25, 2009 22:08:09 GMT
I bow before your Tull roots...and realize I'm a newbie by comparision...having found Tull on New year's Eve of 72/73 and first saw them live on 7-6-73...the very day Passion Play was released in England. I bought 'Brick' the day after I heard it...then LITP...then worked my way back, in order and had a full catalogue and numerous boots by the time Passion Play was released in the USA (a week or two after I saw it live). They have been my favorite band since the day I purchased 'Brick' 1-2-73, with money earned from babysitting on New Years Eve...at a home that had 'Brick' in my path after the kids fell asleep ( 'the kids'...I was 15...they were about 5 and 3). I had no mentor on the Tull path...found them alone and pursued them alone...I was surprised to buy Benefit and learn that it wasn't the benefit concert alluded to on side three of LITP....and I was surprised that 'Stand Up' wasn't live...it seemed to make sense that 'Stand Up' would be the title of a live album. Tull, for me, will always be the line-up I saw the first 3 tours: IA, MB, JHH,JE and BB.....everything since has been a willing compromise, but a compromise never the less...I know JHH was more a character than a Bass Player and that it is known that Ian and martin grabbed the Bass in the studio, as needed....but somehow his friendship with Ian, his eccentricity and his stage act add up to something deeply Tull in my book.
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Post by maddogfagin on May 26, 2009 9:28:59 GMT
I bow before your Tull roots...and realize I'm a newbie by comparision...having found Tull on New year's Eve of 72/73 and first saw them live on 7-6-73...the very day Passion Play was released in England. I bought 'Brick' the day after I heard it...then LITP...then worked my way back, in order and had a full catalogue and numerous boots by the time Passion Play was released in the USA (a week or two after I saw it live). They have been my favorite band since the day I purchased 'Brick' 1-2-73, with money earned from babysitting on New Years Eve...at a home that had 'Brick' in my path after the kids fell asleep ( 'the kids'...I was 15...they were about 5 and 3). I had no mentor on the Tull path...found them alone and pursued them alone...I was surprised to buy Benefit and learn that it wasn't the benefit concert alluded to on side three of LITP....and I was surprised that 'Stand Up' wasn't live...it seemed to make sense that 'Stand Up' would be the title of a live album. Tull, for me, will always be the line-up I saw the first 3 tours: IA, MB, JHH,JE and BB.....everything since has been a willing compromise, but a compromise never the less...I know JHH was more a character than a Bass Player and that it is known that Ian and martin grabbed the Bass in the studio, as needed....but somehow his friendship with Ian, his eccentricity and his stage act add up to something deeply Tull in my book. For me the experience of someone getting in to Tull at a late stage is quite envigorating, if that is the right word. I somehow envy their enjoyment of finding out about the back catalogue and hearing IA's compositions from new. Any fan, however young or old, is a friend of mine.
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Post by nonrabbit on May 26, 2009 12:25:28 GMT
I bow before your Tull roots...and realize I'm a newbie by comparision...having found Tull on New year's Eve of 72/73 and first saw them live on 7-6-73...the very day Passion Play was released in England. I bought 'Brick' the day after I heard it...then LITP...then worked my way back, in order and had a full catalogue and numerous boots by the time Passion Play was released in the USA (a week or two after I saw it live). They have been my favorite band since the day I purchased 'Brick' 1-2-73, with money earned from babysitting on New Years Eve...at a home that had 'Brick' in my path after the kids fell asleep ( 'the kids'...I was 15...they were about 5 and 3). I had no mentor on the Tull path...found them alone and pursued them alone...I was surprised to buy Benefit and learn that it wasn't the benefit concert alluded to on side three of LITP....and I was surprised that 'Stand Up' wasn't live...it seemed to make sense that 'Stand Up' would be the title of a live album. Tull, for me, will always be the line-up I saw the first 3 tours: IA, MB, JHH,JE and BB.....everything since has been a willing compromise, but a compromise never the less...I know JHH was more a character than a Bass Player and that it is known that Ian and martin grabbed the Bass in the studio, as needed....but somehow his friendship with Ian, his eccentricity and his stage act add up to something deeply Tull in my book. For me the experience of someone getting in to Tull at a late stage is quite envigorating, if that is the right word. I somehow envy their enjoyment of finding out about the back catalogue and hearing IA's compositions from new. Any fan, however young or old, is a friend of mine. Agree to absolutely everything you've both posted up there! I never knew many Tull fans in my first foray into Tull so I went down the Aqualung/Benefit route on my own. Aqualung being the introduction Benefit being the addiction Gave up at one point and then returned and your spot on Maddog - it is incredibly exhilerating discovering Tull again and that they continued to give so much after I dropped out !! I suppose though given youthful memories etc my core Tull is the line up I saw Live in the early days; Anderson Barre Evan Barlow and Hammond
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Post by bluehare on May 26, 2009 13:31:42 GMT
Man! I thought that reading all these posts would make it easier on me. But they're all good and sound, so they've only made it more difficult to choose. The first lineup I ever saw was IA, MB, J Noyce, A Giddings, and Doane Perry. No offense to them, but J Noyce and A Giddings never seemed to fit. I liked them, but they were just sort of "there". Much like Dave Goodier and John O'Hara. I guess my preferred lineup would be IA, MB, John Evans, and JHH. But instrumentally it sounds like Dave Pegg would be a much better choice as bass player - and it sounds like he fit in with the group as well. The drummers are the worst for me. Clive Bunker, Barrie Barlow, and Doane. I like Doane and think he does fit in well. But I would have liked to see the other two.... (I don't mean to slight James Duncan, but I get the feeling he just helps out when needed as he has his own thing going...). Can I have all three drummers?
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Post by steelmonkey on May 26, 2009 13:49:42 GMT
Any fan, however young or old, is a friend of mine.
This rings very true with me, too...I've travelled a lot...mostly hitch-hiking-crashing with strangers...and I've been on the other side too...giving lifts and offering space when i was the home team...so I have often made consequential decisions on first impressions. Deadheads, Zappa freaks and Dylan fans have sometimes let me down....but I've never been 'burned' by a Tull fan...ever....well, one guy stayed a bit long...but took it like a mensch when i said he might mosey down the road...
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