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Post by nonrabbit on Feb 21, 2013 10:31:47 GMT
If Ian had participated in the odd psychedelic enhancement could it have changed or added to certain songs?
What would APP have sounded like if it had gone down the path of psychedelica?
Songs From The Wood of Magic Mushrooms?
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tullist
Master Craftsman
Posts: 478
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Post by tullist on Feb 21, 2013 13:06:26 GMT
Interesting notion Patti, one long ago considered by me. And an immediate conclusion, at least for those of us for whom the point of the exercise, was, in part to learn that inner calm and focus and acceptance of the all basically, (as opposed to the more common dabble of a bit of a howl on the way to the more enriching strains of cocaine and whiskey) would have been an exercise in futility for IA, because I believe he is one of a very few humans of innate advanced awareness. The personal humility toward life in general, (if not always other humans)I believe is something he was born with. So many people were tripping in that Passion Play crowd, a couple of years before cocaine and quaaludes elbowed there was into overall youth culture. A signifigant part of the reason why the likes of Passion Play was allowed to get a view from the top of the charts, believe me, even two years later it would not have. But I don't think either album would have been created, and, for an organization that has moved as many overall units as they have, Tull was never purely a mainstream band. But I believe hallucinogens would have moved him even further from things, that at one time got radio play, basically. But I do think he would have made music of equal credibility. A vastly more interesting notion to me is the dosing of all world leaders, in the case of the leader of Iran, maybe then taking him through the various flashpoints of the Holocaust, to recalibrate his notions as to its existance. Or that guy in Zimbabwe who's rule saw Hitler and Stalin type numbers disapear, (more on the order of a mere couple million) a stroll while tripping thru the real time effect of his handiwork. But hey, at least he got rid of white people, what a guy. Putin, and a mindset in Russia that is subtly casting a different light on the time of Stalin, forgetting the part that he can be connected to murders that eclipse even Hitler, on the order of ten million, a stroll for Putin lets say in the mid to late thirties through the Ukraine when it was often difficult to know when you were the next one ticketed for extinction. I can support only their celebration of a time when Russia pretty much stood alone in reversing the tide of fascism, thinking specifically of Leningrad (Sankt Petersburg) and Stalingrad, (I forget what they call that one now)and this was indeed a time when Stalin was the leader, but I credit their people and soldiers, not the man who saw them as imminently expendable. And CEO's, people of inordinate power in general, them I would like to be dosing. I believe under such a plan the overall health of the planet and its inhabitants would improve, and possibly drastically. But the sort of "bug up his ass" aspect of Ian, like the guy who seemed to be going a step too far in his redressing of the man smoking pot at his show, that might have been affected in a positive way by psychedelic experience. But also maybe not because it just makes you acutely aware of it, not remove it. And it might just be a Scottish thing, that I would not want to change. But I wish he would go off on people in Highland Scots, I am sure he knows how.
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Post by JTull 007 on Feb 21, 2013 14:04:25 GMT
If Ian had participated in the odd psychedelic enhancement could it have changed or added to certain songs?
What would APP have sounded like if it had gone down the path of psychedelica?
Songs From The Wood of Magic Mushrooms? ;D
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Post by nonrabbit on Feb 21, 2013 16:10:30 GMT
I suppose Dharma and to a lesser extent Song For Jeffrey would have been their only foray into psychedelic.
Do you have to go through the "jazz" door to get to psychedelic rock?
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Post by nonrabbit on Feb 21, 2013 16:26:35 GMT
Interesting notion Patti, one long ago considered by me. And an immediate conclusion, at least for those of us for whom the point of the exercise, was, in part to learn that inner calm and focus and acceptance of the all basically, (as opposed to the more common dabble of a bit of a howl on the way to the more enriching strains of cocaine and whiskey) would have been an exercise in futility for IA, because I believe he is one of a very few humans of innate advanced awareness. The personal humility toward life in general, (if not always other humans)I believe is something he was born with. So many people were tripping in that Passion Play crowd, a couple of years before cocaine and quaaludes elbowed there was into overall youth culture. A signifigant part of the reason why the likes of Passion Play was allowed to get a view from the top of the charts, believe me, even two years later it would not have. But I don't think either album would have been created, and, for an organization that has moved as many overall units as they have, Tull was never purely a mainstream band. But I believe hallucinogens would have moved him even further from things, that at one time got radio play, basically. But I do think he would have made music of equal credibility. A vastly more interesting notion to me is the dosing of all world leaders, in the case of the leader of Iran, maybe then taking him through the various flashpoints of the Holocaust, to recalibrate his notions as to its existance. Or that guy in Zimbabwe who's rule saw Hitler and Stalin type numbers disapear, (more on the order of a mere couple million) a stroll while tripping thru the real time effect of his handiwork. But hey, at least he got rid of white people, what a guy. Putin, and a mindset in Russia that is subtly casting a different light on the time of Stalin, forgetting the part that he can be connected to murders that eclipse even Hitler, on the order of ten million, a stroll for Putin lets say in the mid to late thirties through the Ukraine when it was often difficult to know when you were the next one ticketed for extinction. I can support only their celebration of a time when Russia pretty much stood alone in reversing the tide of fascism, thinking specifically of Leningrad (Sankt Petersburg) and Stalingrad, (I forget what they call that one now)and this was indeed a time when Stalin was the leader, but I credit their people and soldiers, not the man who saw them as imminently expendable. And CEO's, people of inordinate power in general, them I would like to be dosing. I believe under such a plan the overall health of the planet and its inhabitants would improve, and possibly drastically. But the sort of "bug up his ass" aspect of Ian, like the guy who seemed to be going a step too far in his redressing of the man smoking pot at his show, that might have been affected in a positive way by psychedelic experience. But also maybe not because it just makes you acutely aware of it, not remove it. And it might just be a Scottish thing, that I would not want to change. But I wish he would go off on people in Highland Scots, I am sure he knows how. "...His inate advanced awareness"Agree however broadening the subject beyond taking drugs, do you ever think that his somewhat introverted and at times, almost sullen personality may have hindered an even greater and imaginative outpouring of creativity? "dosing world leaders"You do know that this years G8 Summit is coming to a spot near me "talking Scottish"I think it was last year that he said that learning the old Scot's tongue was on his list of things to do on retirement ...so that won't be anytime soon!
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Post by markridley on Feb 21, 2013 16:35:38 GMT
Maybe the stern and driven Ian that did all that hard work and turned out a new cool record every year would have been reduced to the picture that JT07 posted of a stoned disorganized guy that burned down his woods. After all, enlightened or not, Ian's life was more like a athletes, (that smoked cigs.) As enlightened as I might've felt I was never driven to do any physical activity let alone keep on to a tight schedule and deadlines. I mean they mightve forgotton to put gas in the plane. I would have wanted to roll over in bed.
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Post by JTull 007 on Feb 21, 2013 17:03:35 GMT
"Creativity"Sometimes I use this word in many discussions. In music it can be almost anything which seems strange. Psychedelic sounds have been made for years with or without getting high. Everyone has moments of euphoria. Think of the Jazz and Blues which influenced every facet of Rock and Roll. When Pink Floyd did their music, I was immediately transformed into an alternative universe. They did long instrumentals with amazing sounds like animals, babies crying, and heartbeats. For some reason Ian may have been on the same wavelength even while smoking tobacco. Those could have had the same effect on him as someone else burning a Tull Doobwa. Give him a few beers occasionally and a carton of his favorite smokes and he was out there. Dee Palmer said they would go through a carton in 2 days while in the studio. Sounds kind of Psychedelic...
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Post by markridley on Feb 21, 2013 18:00:46 GMT
I suppose Dharma and to a lesser extent Song For Jeffrey would have been their only foray into psychedelic. Do you have to go through the "jazz" door to get to psychedelic rock? What do you find Psychedelic about A Song for Jeffery or Dharma? (I really want to know) dont get me wrong I consider a ton of Tull psychedelic. I'm not sure I consider those songs very psychedelic. and I think the Jazz door is "beyond" psych rock. Part of being stoned is actually believing that when your listening to someone play, that your connecting with them on some higher level. I don't think they're there most of the time. It's a cool feeling but I think it's a bunch of synapses firing like "magic"
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Post by maddogfagin on Feb 21, 2013 18:47:35 GMT
If Ian had participated in the odd psychedelic enhancement could it have changed or added to certain songs? What would APP have sounded like if it had gone down the path of psychedelica? Songs From The Wood of Magic Mushrooms? I would think that Jethro Tull (or might have they reverted back to Candy Coloured Rain as Derek Lawrence wanted them to be called) would have been a different beast from the one that we all know and love. Whether that would have been a good or bad thing is open to conjecture but for me I'm damn glad things turned out as they did.
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Post by nonrabbit on Feb 21, 2013 20:30:33 GMT
Maybe the stern and driven Ian that did all that hard work and turned out a new cool record every year would have been reduced to the picture that JT07 posted of a stoned disorganized guy that burned down his woods. After all, enlightened or not, Ian's life was more like a athletes, (that smoked cigs.) As enlightened as I might've felt I was never driven to do any physical activity let alone keep on to a tight schedule and deadlines. I mean they mightve forgotton to put gas in the plane. I would have wanted to roll over in bed. Yes he surely is disciplined probably coming from his childhood/background. He wouldn't be doing concerts and revamps at this stage of his life either if he'd lost the plot back in the 60's/70's. Wonder if he regrets the fags* now too? *Are you from the US or UK?
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Post by nonrabbit on Feb 21, 2013 20:42:23 GMT
I suppose Dharma and to a lesser extent Song For Jeffrey would have been their only foray into psychedelic. Do you have to go through the "jazz" door to get to psychedelic rock? What do you find Psychedelic about A Song for Jeffery or Dharma? (I really want to know) dont get me wrong I consider a ton of Tull psychedelic. I'm not sure I consider those songs very psychedelic. and I think the Jazz door is "beyond" psych rock. Part of being stoned is actually believing that when your listening to someone play, that your connecting with them on some higher level. I don't think they're there most of the time. It's a cool feeling but I think it's a bunch of synapses firing like "magic" Hi Mark Well from my untrained musical ear, I considered Dharma and Jeffrey to be a bit complex,"different" surreal and therefore psychedelic.
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Post by markridley on Feb 22, 2013 17:41:06 GMT
What do you find Psychedelic about A Song for Jeffery or Dharma? (I really want to know) dont get me wrong I consider a ton of Tull psychedelic. I'm not sure I consider those songs very psychedelic. and I think the Jazz door is "beyond" psych rock. Part of being stoned is actually believing that when your listening to someone play, that your connecting with them on some higher level. I don't think they're there most of the time. It's a cool feeling but I think it's a bunch of synapses firing like "magic" Hi Mark Well from my untrained musical ear, I considered Dharma and Jeffrey to be a bit complex,"different" surreal and therefore psychedelic. Hello ms Non Rabbit (nice to finally meet you, read all about you in 72) Well I always considered those just good bashing rock and blues. As far as psychedelia as always think of the opening of With you there to help me or cross eyed Mary or the first big instrumental during TAAB or most ALL of APP. I'm from California home to some of the finest growers on the planet. I assume you all Brits here? Where fags are really on fire.... Mark
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Post by journeyman on Feb 24, 2013 22:14:21 GMT
I myself have had quite a few forays into the psychedelic world (the kind induced by mushrooms) and I have to say I don't think it would necessarily make Ian's music more "psychedelic" perse, but perhaps it would influence him to make much more structured songs--who's to even say? The song "17" isn't too far from the type of sound Jefferson Airplane/Quicksilver was doing at the time. Other than that song and the ones aforementioned, I can't think of too many "psychedelic rock" Tull songs. I guess I'm just respectfully suggesting the introduction of Psychedelic drugs into the situation wouldn't necessarily result in "psychedelic rock"
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Post by steelmonkey on Feb 25, 2013 4:37:21 GMT
I'm glad Ian remained Ian and did not ever try jump start the muse with LSD...I mean...there's only on Tull...and did the world need another : Hawkwind, Can, Gong, etc trippy kind of band. I love tons of music considered psychedelic from obvious Grateful Dead to Pink Floyd, non-blues Cream and early Yes......but still glad Ian kept his brain cells relatively coralled to come up with the music we have.........Ginger Baker...trippiest drummer ever, came in thru the jazz door.
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Post by JTull 007 on Feb 25, 2013 14:22:43 GMT
I'm glad Ian remained Ian and did not ever try jump start the muse with LSD... I mean...there's only on Tull...and did the world need another : Hawkwind, Can, Gong, etc trippy kind of band. I love tons of music considered psychedelic from obvious Grateful Dead to Pink Floyd, non-blues Cream and early Yes......but still glad Ian kept his brain cells relatively coralled to come up with the music we have.........Ginger Baker...trippiest drummer ever, came in thru the jazz door. Good point about Ian. He did not need much to get far out there. Actually his other vices did quite well at the time. Just a little hypocrisy from time to time. I'm sure he was influenced by other groups that did use other forms of spiritual enhancement. Being "Psychedelic" does not require one to hallucinate. Just to use imagination and creativity. Ian on Acid...that would be scary. Man to Ian ..."Mellow, mellow, mel...low, mel......low".
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Post by steelmonkey on Feb 25, 2013 19:45:14 GMT
I've mentioned in other threads...I've tripped at Tull concerts (SFTW and Stromwatch) and it did not feel right...the contrast between tripping at grateful dead gig where audience and band loved each other and comparably cold, businesslike, Ian does not love me at all vibe was stark and painful.
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Post by journeyman on Mar 2, 2013 19:56:06 GMT
I've mentioned in other threads...I've tripped at Tull concerts (SFTW and Stromwatch) and it did not feel right...the contrast between tripping at grateful dead gig where audience and band loved each other and comparably cold, businesslike, Ian does not love me at all vibe was stark and painful. Pretty interesting. I can imagine the difference well. I have read accounts of others who did in fact enjoy Tull shows while "tripping" but it does not take much to induce a very uncomfortable feeling during a trip and a sharp remark from Ian would do the trick.
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Post by steelmonkey on Mar 2, 2013 21:27:13 GMT
Didn't even take a remark...the feeling that Ian was not enjoying himself that much, did not respect the people in the audience, despite his concurrent businesslike obligation to oput on a good show for the money and, as mentioned above, the unlikleyhood that he would enjoy 5 minutes talking to me or anyone around me was more than enough to insert discomfort in the trip. I think he has grown far fonder of Tull fans, softened in many ways and really feels he may have something in common with or some respect for we fans who have hung in for 40 plus years...but in the late seventies he was doing a job, especially in America, for people that he thought of as jean wearing, unintellectual, boogie-screaming louts. I'm very grateful for this latter day and so much better era of Ian/Tull audience realtions and will be eternally grateful to David Pegg, David rees, Martin Webb and probably the current young helpers for their role in the upgrade.
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tullist
Master Craftsman
Posts: 478
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Post by tullist on Mar 3, 2013 6:27:13 GMT
I was at a Tull show tripping in 78, in bootleg circles the Sonny Jim show in Chicago. I feel certain I have told that tale here, and, it was a lower case moderately unclean buzzzzing, but yes, it was quite bad energy, thru no fault of IA's. (Some yahoo had tossed something, maybe "only" toilet paper but maybe a bottle, I dunno from the balcony somewhere, narrowly missing Barrie) But it was like the big boss had come in to lay down the law, party's over, quality righteous contempt. I could relate a couple psychedelic experiences that were frightening in part, one due to extraneous and act of God circumstances, and another constituting maybe half an hour of extreme am I dying terror giving way to unspeakable beauty no man should see, lol. Actually I was just concerned I might croak while shoveling my parents driveway in Jan 73, while half a gram of MDA introduced itself into my perspective. I am pretty sure before I was done with the job, on a near or at zero night that shortly felt like perfect tropical breezes, I went out a wandering for miles with my coat open I recall, occasionly leering at females on the other side of the street to see if I had my Wolfman thing goin on.
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Post by nonrabbit on Apr 29, 2013 10:17:12 GMT
Reading back over the thread I do take the point that drugs and psychedelic rock are not necessarily bedfellows - in fact I'm slightly annoyed at myself for linking it. Although I participated back in the day, I did however have a rebellious(?) streak that said you don't need drugs or alcohol to expand the mind. Bulldog Breed were a one hit psychedelic rock band back in 1969. I think this sounds "Jeffreyish"... in an amateur way and this is the obligatory black magic obsessed offering. Imagine, if you may, that Ian had bought a house that once belonged to a devil worshipper which influenced him to write Witches Promise.
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Post by morthoron on May 20, 2013 17:16:43 GMT
Possibly the most psychedelic tune by Tull, what with the backward guitars and looping. If you play it backwards on a turntable, there is the repeated line "Turn me on Jeffrey".
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Post by JTull 007 on May 20, 2013 20:19:50 GMT
Still sounds great all these years later. For this song to be Psychedelic, you might right. Even if Ian never got high, I'm sure was influenced by those who did. Far Out Tull.
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Post by steelmonkey on May 20, 2013 21:30:39 GMT
'With you there to help me' as well, I'd say...very trippy with some of the same effects as Play in Time. When they unretired that song, I think during the 'Light and Dark' tour that followed the release of 'A Little Light Music' and they sorta chickened out of playing as much of an acoustic set in the USA as they had in Europe/Israel to generate the album, no one was happier than me. 'With You there to Help me' has to be on most 'top ten Tull song' lists despite the temptation to give spots to longer, more complex latter day tunes. What are the top 3. pre-Aqualung songs? With you there to help me, life's a long song and what else ? Sweet Dreams? LITP ? Nothing is easy? Cry you a song? Reasons for waiting? tough call.
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Post by Teacher on May 21, 2013 0:54:26 GMT
'With you there to help me' as well, I'd say...very trippy with some of the same effects as Play in Time. When they unretired that song, I think during the 'Light and Dark' tour that followed the release of 'A Little Light Music' and they sorta chickened out of playing as much of an acoustic set in the USA as they had in Europe/Israel to generate the album, no one was happier than me. 'With You there to Help me' has to be on most 'top ten Tull song' lists despite the temptation to give spots to longer, more complex latter day tunes. What are the top 3. pre-Aqualung songs? With you there to help me, life's a long song and what else ? Sweet Dreams? LITP ? Nothing is easy? Cry you a song? Reasons for waiting? tough call. Pick my top 3 songs from the pre-Aqualung song list? No Way! You did a pretty good job with the seven or so that you mentioned but I would add a few more. New Day Yesterday, We Use to Know and maybe even Teacher (just saying). So much good music from way back when!
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Post by maddogfagin on May 21, 2013 6:29:46 GMT
Possibly the most psychedelic tune by Tull, what with the backward guitars and looping. If you play it backwards on a turntable, there is the repeated line "Turn me on Jeffrey". I'll have to take your word on that. And there's me thinking it was "meet you all in the Calcutta Indian restaurant after the show". Quick pass me the pipe will you !
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