stevep
Master Craftsman
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Post by stevep on Jan 7, 2012 1:44:09 GMT
I am currently doing some work down in South America. One of my colleagues here is a big rock fan (into Tull too). He mentioned to me that Roger Waters is in South America doing the Wall tour in March. Thought it might be interesting to see the concert so had a look to see when & where he is on. What I saw really shocked me - he is doing 9 nights at the River Plate stadium in Buenos Aires. From what I can tell the stadium takes around 77,000 for the football and probably more for big concerts - maybe nearer the 90k? He is also doing concerts over numerous nights in other countries - Brazil, Chile, etc.
I then looked at Ian Anderson's TAAB tour and took a quick sample. The Derby Assembly rooms has plenty of tickets left at a fraction of the Waters tour prices. Capacity there is reported to be 2,000.
I just cannot understand why there should be such a marked difference in their "pulling capacity". Yes, the Wall was one of the biggest selling albums ever & okay Dark Side was good too but Tull had TAAB, Aqualung, APP & others that made their mark too.
There are a few similarities between the two chaps:
- Both are on tour without their lead guitarists. I would argue that Gilmour is as big a loss to Floyd as Barre is to Tull.
- Both men are similar ages and maybe not in the best voice nowadays. I always thought Waters voice to be weird and "catchy" though actually not that great.
- Both are promoting albums that were really big in the 70's
- I would argue that both are not really household names (like say an Elton John). I am not sure how many of the general public would recognise IA or Waters if they saw them in the street. Rock fans would but probably not the man/woman in the street.
So what happened to our Tull that they are now so low down the rock pecking order? I am not sure that it really matters to us or even to IA and co. It just seems weird though.
By the way the Bootleg Beatles, Joan Armatrading & Gilbert O'Sullivan are also on at the Assembly rooms....
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Post by steelmonkey on Jan 7, 2012 3:13:24 GMT
I bet I.A. TAAB would sell out one or maybe two nights at the gigantor stadium in B.A.
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tullist
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Post by tullist on Jan 7, 2012 5:16:21 GMT
I would mark it down to a few different developments dating back to about 1975, first and foremost the homogenization of radio from the multi faceted aspects of underground radio which gave way to the classic rock format of the mid seventies, where DarK Side Of The Moon, and later the Wall and Who's Next and Led Zeppelin4 became this sort of watered down conglomeration that I believe helped birth all the lame mainstream music ever since,( with specific mall ready examples as Queen, Van Halen and Rush, o do run for cover Raymond) not to mention ruining some perfectly fine pieces of music, say, Satisfaction by the Stones, in the process, by constantly following this Dark Side of the Moon AOR ethic for decades.(Always like to pat myself on the back that this is a notion I brought right to Ian in 83 audaciously saying that if Tull were coming out now they would never get on the radio.)The stranglehold baby with no Beatles to save us. In the first ten years of that development Aqualung too made the cut, but all Tull's output otherwise definitely got marginalized, now to my knowledge down to Aqualung and Locomotive Breath, at least its two good onesif the most familiar, they each have stood the test of time, and somehow to my ears, ones Ian can still attack in concert in voice.,(The voice sounds very much better than the 84 thru 92 period on those 2 and in general, what I believe to be a fact rarely acknowledged.) Plus I guess his voice sounds just evil enough to the Ozzy/Iron Maiden crowd even if he is singing about Robin Hoods of Highgate and bogs, that Aqua get's a pass. Add in probably close to two generations brought up on couches with violent video games, a de evolution of character in mainstream movies that I date specifically to Star Wars in 77, a major uptick in the already healthy celebration of violence which would see something like ultimate fighting probably surpass baseball in at least America's national consciousness, all these things take us along way away from the time of Brick,(probably considered "gay" in today's parlance)not to mention jazz, folk and classical music, or even dare I say, Grimmanelli's Lament, but I believe less so to the likes of the Wall, Black Sabbath or Led Zeppelin. I really must add at this point that with the possible exception of that travesty Led Zeppelin put to film in 76 with the dreamy sequence with Robert Planet on milk white steed, no wonder we got punk, the Wall stands alone as the single most insidious thing I have ever seen committed to the big screen. To me all the pain and misery of the actual wall in Berlin was cheapened by the Floyd extravaganzo. Merely replaying JFK's Ich Bin Ein Berliner speech, and Mr Gorbachev please do take a bow, coupled with some highly reflective classical music would have been much more apropos. Or even Paul McCartney, who's band had so much more to do with changing the consciousness that brought down the Wall than Roger Water's creed of self pity.(See Paul in Red Square and every human should read Bloodlands) Yeah I know his Dad fought in the war. So did mine. So did lots of people's. And it was real damn scary. Poor condescending rock star. Right I know we don't get any damn pudding. But at least we will eat and see a new day. The idea of TAAB being a 42 minute piece of music in a period where people are most normally no longer on psychedelics is also notable. Try getting a 42 minute piece to number 1 in any year past 73 and I rest my case. Suckers were so stoned they had to pay attention. I was thinking of one or two others but...I'm pretty old. But finally the reason can be found in the title and opening lines of the album. And through all the great moments it remains Tull's crowning acheivement. And I know IA will silence most detractors, and likely will play all of it, something that never occured through the 80 minute performances of it in 72. That missing 12 minutes just might be the highest moments in their recorded history too. And I just know Jeffrey will be along at some point, intoning "Ian is playing a rhythmic link sequence" and I think it unlikely my eyes would be dry. I could probably recite most of it but..I just know Ian Anderson will deliver the goods. Less sure about Martin, especially seeing his playmates.
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Post by snaffler on Jan 7, 2012 8:19:45 GMT
the reason why IA cannot command anywhere near as big and audiened as RW is simple. IA has been touring constantly over the years getting to the grassroots of communities EVERYWHERE. and naturally there isnt the clamour for tickets since he has been accessible to fans on aregular basis. whereas how often does RW tour? when was the last time he did a small tour?
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Post by nonrabbit on Jan 7, 2012 13:36:56 GMT
I wonder if geography has something to do with it as well? I know in Scotland (specifically Glasgow) in the 70's Tull weren't as popular as PF. Maybe also true of S America? In 1979 when The Wall was released it marked a fairly radical change for Floyd. They jumped from the style of Animals and WYWH to The Wall and as we all know it was a huge selling album/concert /concept especially in US. In 1979 Tull had just released the last of the trilogy albums which although picked up a lot of new fans lost some over the mid to late 70's who weren't too keen on the hey diddy diddy turn the band took - me included - more fool me Interesting as well in comparing the story of Waters and the inspiration of The Wall to Tull's MITG. Waters was so annoyed at the heckling of the stadium crowds that he built a wall between him and the audience. Anderson's lyrics on MITG also suggests a cynical view towards the crowds. I saw Floyd twice once at Reading and at Wembley 1988 - someone's uploaded the full concert here - catch it quick if you're keen ; The shows were good ;D but no match for Tull.
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Post by steelmonkey on Jan 7, 2012 15:18:10 GMT
No one mentioned that Argentinians are wild, passionate, respectful of the past, wonderful rock fans...as are Brazilians...and despite being much more on the beaten path than in the 70's, still starved, or traumatized from the days they were starved, for big time rock n roll acts ( no condensation to local music...hey ...music from England is imported to the USA as well)...so yeah, Rump Pink Floyd sells a lot of tickets...but like i said above...I bet Ian sells out one or two nights in a soccer stadium in Buenos Aires.
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stevep
Master Craftsman
Posts: 431
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Post by stevep on Jan 7, 2012 17:48:01 GMT
I wonder how much of to is just down to pure old better publicity. Waters had full blown adverts in UK papers advertising his concerts that hinted at /promised an incredible show. i am sure his concerts are advertised on TV all over the place. Maybe people go along to see the show (rather than to listen to the music). When you think about it - at least IA did all the vocals on Tull albums. Waters (I think) did many of the vocals on Wall but Gilmour (in my opinion) had the better voice. I wonder how many people that attend Waters shows actually know the name of another musician in his group (I don't). Interesting points raised so far though. I also think IA could sell out a few nights at a S.American stadium but I think he would have to do a bit more on the promotion side.... MR Tull has dusted off his codpiece or something like that
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2012 17:45:35 GMT
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Post by steelmonkey on Jun 18, 2012 19:18:21 GMT
I'm glad I'm not 23 and walking around confused about Bone Ivory or whatever.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2012 19:31:45 GMT
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Post by steelmonkey on Jun 18, 2012 23:22:22 GMT
There was a Tull Jeopardy question...I think they played a bit of Bungle and the reigning champion mis-identified it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2012 13:11:14 GMT
There was a Tull Jeopardy question...I think they played a bit of Bungle and the reigning champion mis-identified it. Jethro Toe? ;D
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rapo
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Post by rapo on Jun 19, 2012 13:48:51 GMT
Hi, my name's Andrés and I'm a Tull fan from Argentina. Been reading the board for a while now, since I found out about all the TAAB / TAAB2 extravaganza, but this topic was the one that got me to register, 'cause you're talking about my country, people! What I can say on this matter is that Pink Floyd is a much, MUCH popular group in Argentina than Tull, no question about that (as in the rest of the planet!). And what happens with "The Wall" in particular, is that the film was very important -in the cultural and symbolic sense- in the times when the democracy was recovered here, after the horrific military dictatorship that ruled the country between '76 and '83. The album was censored, not sure if the movie was censored too (but very likely), and so when the argentinians finally got hold of them, they could relate easily to the alienation and opression feast built by Waters. The film in particular was shown for years and years in a cinema theatre here in Buenos Aires, and people came in thousands to see it. It was a real cultural phenomenon (I have to say I was little when all of this happened, being born in '77, but I do remember the aura that surrounded the film).
Talking in particular about the 9 stadiums filled by Waters (I went to the first show, thought it was great, more a hi-tec musical than a rock show), a record-breaking run here in Argentina, there are several reasons for it. Besides the ones I mentioned above, the shows were all but one with people seated (because of past complaints about vibrations from neighbours with cracks in their houses and apartments), a factor that greatly diminished the stadium capacity. And other thing: it became that sort of event that you "HAVE to see no matter what!", so a lot (A LOT!) of people who are not Floyd or Waters fans by any means, went just to say that they were there. A snobbish gesture, if you ask me, but there's a lot of that going on here in Argentina...
But enough about The Wall! Let's talk about Tull. Sadly, Ian can't fill a football stadium here, believe me... But Tull did fill a boxing stadium (7000 to 9000 people), The Luna Park stadium, 4 years ago! And Tull and Ian (with and without orchestra) visited us six times if I'm not mistaken, so definitely there are Tullheads here, but JT is clearly a cult band in Argentina, a legend from the seventies, no more, but no less.
And yes we are "wild, passionate, respectful of the past, wonderful rock fans", that's very true! Ask anyone!
BTW, love TAAB 2. Not like the first one, of course, but I'm glad Ian got a new rush of inspiration when no one was expecting it. Cheers!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2012 14:36:55 GMT
Ian Anderson called Tull the most famous underground band in the world when they toured Toronto. I'm a huge Pink Floyd fan, been to every Toronto/Hamilton area concert. Canadian popularity? Of course Floyd wins huge.
cheers!
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Post by maddogfagin on Jun 19, 2012 14:38:36 GMT
Hi, my name's Andrés and I'm a Tull fan from Argentina. Been reading the board for a while now, since I found out about all the TAAB / TAAB2 extravaganza, but this topic was the one that got me to register, 'cause you're talking about my country, people! What I can say on this matter is that Pink Floyd is a much, MUCH popular group in Argentina than Tull, no question about that (as in the rest of the planet!). And what happens with "The Wall" in particular, is that the film was very important -in the cultural and symbolic sense- in the times when the democracy was recovered here, after the horrific military dictatorship that ruled the country between '76 and '83. The album was censored, not sure if the movie was censored too (but very likely), and so when the argentinians finally got hold of them, they could relate easily to the alienation and opression feast built by Waters. The film in particular was shown for years and years in a cinema theatre here in Buenos Aires, and people came in thousands to see it. It was a real cultural phenomenon (I have to say I was little when all of this happened, being born in '77, but I do remember the aura that surrounded the film). Talking in particular about the 9 stadiums filled by Waters (I went to the first show, thought it was great, more a hi-tec musical than a rock show), a record-breaking run here in Argentina, there are several reasons for it. Besides the ones I mentioned above, the shows were all but one with people seated (because of past complaints about vibrations from neighbours with cracks in their houses and apartments), a factor that greatly diminished the stadium capacity. And other thing: it became that sort of event that you "HAVE to see no matter what!", so a lot (A LOT!) of people who are not Floyd or Waters fans by any means, went just to say that they were there. A snobbish gesture, if you ask me, but there's a lot of that going on here in Argentina... But enough about The Wall! Let's talk about Tull. Sadly, Ian can't fill a football stadium here, believe me... But Tull did fill a boxing stadium (7000 to 9000 people), The Luna Park stadium, 4 years ago! And Tull and Ian (with and without orchestra) visited us six times if I'm not mistaken, so definitely there are Tullheads here, but JT is clearly a cult band in Argentina, a legend from the seventies, no more, but no less. And yes we are "wild, passionate, respectful of the past, wonderful rock fans", that's very true! Ask anyone! BTW, love TAAB 2. Not like the first one, of course, but I'm glad Ian got a new rush of inspiration when no one was expecting it. Cheers! Hi Andrés and welcome along to The Jethro Tull Forum. I get your point about Roger Waters and The Wall and its meaning and its initial censorship in your country so I suppose he could argue that it served its purpose in that respect. As for Tull - yes they are a “cult” band in many parts of the world and you could argue that 7000 to 9000 people is a pretty good audience. Most music fans that I know of either like Tull or dismiss them as an irrelevance in this day and age but Ian Anderson’s views and actions, including performing in certain places other bands don’t go to - Israel is one such example - means they still have a loyal following worldwide. Good to have you here and I look forward to reading your posts about Tull. Maddog/Graham
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Post by nobodyspecial on Jun 20, 2012 18:21:24 GMT
My prespective on the JT/PF thing; I hear it like this - JT is not an 'easy listen' there's a lot of stuff happening in let's say a 2 minute passage of a JT tune than compared to 2 minutes of a PF tune. Musically (at least to my ears) PF has never sounded as 'involved', there were longer, sweeping chords, etc.
But I mean really, even with the last couple JT disks, there was plenty to hear. The Wall had some excellent moments - but I never bought into the video side of it, and in fact it always seems to border on PF taking itself too seriously. Plus, PF has always been a guitar dominated band/act - and that makes it a heck of lot more marketable in the radio game. PF had some good stuff, but I think now it's just a big, slightly over-stuffed arena act, easy to take in for the masses.
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Post by steelmonkey on Jun 20, 2012 22:18:20 GMT
By The Way, which one is Pink ?
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Post by maddogfagin on Jun 21, 2012 6:31:59 GMT
By The Way, which one is Pink ? The one at the back. Always preferred Floyd after Waters left, handing the baton to David Gilmour who I've always rated as a superb guitarist. The Division Bell is up there as one of the best albums of its genre imo.
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Post by steelmonkey on Jun 21, 2012 15:20:42 GMT
I like Meddle and Animals....don't have much time for overplayed Dark Side and Wall though I did admire Wall for ambition when it was new.....who are the progeny of Pink Floyd? maybe New Order and Radiohead ?
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Post by orion12 on Feb 28, 2022 14:34:24 GMT
Old thread!
As a big fan of both Jethro Tull and Pink Floyd I have to say that Pink Floyd songs are more simpler and therefore much more commercial. It is enough to compare for example 'Another Brick In The Wall part 2.' and 'A Passion Play'. It's no wonder Rod Stewart, A-Ha and Queen(with Rodgers) bring to the Copacabana beach in Brazil 1.5 million fans for the show. This is because they are very commercial, imho. That was never Jethro Tull’s primary goal. Ian Anderson himself once stated that in an interview when he was asked if he was satisfied with the 60 million sold albums of Jethro Tull.
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Post by Budding Stately Hero on Feb 28, 2022 17:48:03 GMT
By The Way, which one is Pink ? The one at the back. Always preferred Floyd after Waters left, handing the baton to David Gilmour who I've always rated as a superb guitarist. The Division Bell is up there as one of the best albums of its genre imo. The songs on The Division Bell are just as, if not more, cohesive sounding than even Dark Side of the Moon. The Division Bell, for me, hits home simply because of it being about communication and relationships. I feel each song is connected to each other song. Waters went out of his way on more than a few occasions to slam the album, which to me, means that he was jealous of what Gilmour accomplished. Once The Division Bell was released it not only made me eager to see the tour, but within a few years it became my most listened to Floyd album, by far. Now, almost 30 years later, it is the only Floyd album I turn to when I'm in a sour mood and just want to stew for a few hours. By catharsis, it brings me right out of my funk, because Gilmour can identify and understand that we all go through the same stuff, not just wealthy, spoiled rival band members. Coming Back to Life has saved me from a terrible day on many occasions. I combined a playlist including the songs from Endless River and Division Bell. What a moody two hours of music.
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