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Post by Budding Stately Hero on Mar 17, 2022 16:24:39 GMT
As Arnold Schwarzenegger says in Kindergarten Cop, "I am going to ask you a bunch of questions and I want you to answer them immediately."
Just kidding. But, ever since I was twelve years old, I have begun to wonder a few things about Ian's writing, and though it is not necessary to have the answers, it would impress the guests should I belt out certain facts, during a dinner party (think Mark Knopfler's "My Parties"). Over the years, I've gotten some of my questions answered. Here still, are some of the outstanding ones. Please humor me. I'd hate to take these questions to the grave.
1. What is penny cheer? Is that cheap ale? I'm interested in trying some. Can I buy it?
2. ...lute songs served in "chilling ale". What sort of ale would you suppose we are talking about? If one was to pretentiously sit outside on a spring evening, playing the album, what kind of 'ale' would one drink in order for the neighbors to think, "His love of that music knows no boundaries".
3. In the old days, if a girl told her mother that she walked all night on velvet green, would she get slapped in the face or would it be the sort of thing which was depicted in Christopher Lee's 1973 film Wicker Man, where everyone was hopping all over one another in an endless pagan ritual?
4. "And one day when the oil barons have all dripped dry..." When are we to expect things to get back to normal again? 50 years? 100 years? I can't take much more of this internet, fancy cars, cell phones, oil for the tractors to cut the grain to make my oatmeal. I know nothing of your modern ways. I'm just and unfrozen caveman (see Phil Hartman skits). So, when are we supposed to expect things to return to a pre-industrialized society? Or is this just pie in the sky romanticism on Ian's part?
5. Is the "old gent by the station" who "scuffs his toes on old fag packets lying in the street" an incarnation of Aqualung?
6. Have you ever stood in the April wood and called the new year in? Honestly, when I try these customs, I see the neighbors peep out from their windows across the way and quickly draw the blinds as if I'm some kind of crazy person, "He's taking that Jethro Troll stuff way too far." Better to ignore them or boil their rabbit in a pot of water? I thought we were supposed to adopt these customs! This isn't "I know it's only rock n roll but I like it" nonsense, is it? Is this really just another record album like Pop Goes the World by Men Without Hats?
7. "....renews the age-old purpose and contemplates the milking girl" A foreshadowing of the themes on Songs from the Wood?
8. "The transport caf'" means what, exactly?
9. My conundrum... (writing flaw?) If Ray was "doing around 120", I'm supposing it was 120 kph because the song takes place in North Yorkshire. That would make his speed at close to 200 MILES per hour (which I don't believe he was going quite that fast). UNLESS, his Harley has a mph speedometer and not a kph speedometer. If he was doing 120 kph, that would make more sense to me, because he'd be doing about 75 mph, which would still be a problem if one had to stop suddenly. I've been on several motorbike fatality scenes. So, which is it? Did Ian confuse society's here? I tried bringing this up in physics class once, but the teacher said, "Steven, out of here with that nonsense, until you've figured out just what the Mama Pajama caught Paul Simon doing!"
10. "Question all as to their ways and learn the secrets that they hold." Are we allowed to do this anymore? Going around asking people what they believe in? After all, it's not the 70's anymore (let alone, 550 AD) I'm kinda shy about going around asking people, "Are you ready for Samhain?" I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away! Can we discuss our beliefs? Ian certainly still thinks so? Or does he?
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Post by maddogfagin on Mar 17, 2022 17:19:55 GMT
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Post by Budding Stately Hero on Mar 17, 2022 18:39:34 GMT
Thank you, Maddog, sir! Dummy me. Great newspaper article. I loved reading it. I would love to go to a couple of those, specifically the Blue Sky Cafe by the coast and the Pit stop on Bodmin Moor in Cornwall, that way I can stop in and really give it to Biggles and all the sportsmen, for not being there for me when I needed them last Saturday.
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Post by adospencer on Mar 17, 2022 21:34:51 GMT
As Arnold Schwarzenegger says in Kindergarten Cop, "I am going to ask you a bunch of questions and I want you to answer them immediately." Just kidding. But, ever since I was twelve years old, I have begun to wonder a few things about Ian's writing, and though it is not necessary to have the answers, it would impress the guests should I belt out certain facts, during a dinner party (think Mark Knopfler's "My Parties"). Over the years, I've gotten some of my questions answered. Here still, are some of the outstanding ones. Please humor me. I'd hate to take these questions to the grave. 1. What is penny cheer? Is that cheap ale? I'm interested in trying some. Can I buy it? 2. ...lute songs served in "chilling ale". What sort of ale would you suppose we are talking about? If one was to pretentiously sit outside on a spring evening, playing the album, what kind of 'ale' would one drink in order for the neighbors to think, "His love of that music knows no boundaries". 3. In the old days, if a girl told her mother that she walked all night on velvet green, would she get slapped in the face or would it be the sort of thing which was depicted in Christopher Lee's 1973 film Wicker Man, where everyone was hopping all over one another in an endless pagan ritual? 4. "And one day when the oil barons have all dripped dry..." When are we to expect things to get back to normal again? 50 years? 100 years? I can't take much more of this internet, fancy cars, cell phones, oil for the tractors to cut the grain to make my oatmeal. I know nothing of your modern ways. I'm just and unfrozen caveman (see Phil Hartman skits). So, when are we supposed to expect things to return to a pre-industrialized society? Or is this just pie in the sky romanticism on Ian's part? 5. Is the "old gent by the station" who "scuffs his toes on old fag packets lying in the street" an incarnation of Aqualung? 6. Have you ever stood in the April wood and called the new year in? Honestly, when I try these customs, I see the neighbors peep out from their windows across the way and quickly draw the blinds as if I'm some kind of crazy person, "He's taking that Jethro Troll stuff way too far." Better to ignore them or boil their rabbit in a pot of water? I thought we were supposed to adopt these customs! This isn't "I know it's only rock n roll but I like it" nonsense, is it? Is this really just another record album like Pop Goes the World by Men Without Hats? 7. "....renews the age-old purpose and contemplates the milking girl" A foreshadowing of the themes on Songs from the Wood? 8. "The transport caf'" means what, exactly? 9. My conundrum... (writing flaw?) If Ray was "doing around 120", I'm supposing it was 120 kph because the song takes place in North Yorkshire. That would make his speed at close to 200 MILES per hour (which I don't believe he was going quite that fast). UNLESS, his Harley has a mph speedometer and not a kph speedometer. If he was doing 120 kph, that would make more sense to me, because he'd be doing about 75 mph, which would still be a problem if one had to stop suddenly. I've been on several motorbike fatality scenes. So, which is it? Did Ian confuse society's here? I tried bringing this up in physics class once, but the teacher said, "Steven, out of here with that nonsense, until you've figured out just what the Mama Pajama caught Paul Simon doing!" 10. "Question all as to their ways and learn the secrets that they hold." Are we allowed to do this anymore? Going around asking people what they believe in? After all, it's not the 70's anymore (let alone, 550 AD) I'm kinda shy about going around asking people, "Are you ready for Samhain?" I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away! Can we discuss our beliefs? Ian certainly still thinks so? Or does he? Question 9 is easy enough to answer. Its 120 m.p.h. , because despite the European Union trying to force k.p.h. on us some time ago, most of us in the UK still use miles per hour, even more so back in the days where the song is set .Unlikely to be a Harley among that blue collar class of Bikers in England at this time. More likely to be B.S.A. , Norton, or Triumph.. and aren't your maths confused? You mention 120 kph as being both 75 mph and 200 mph !! . Anyway I think you overcomplicated this one and the "confusing societies" you mention is you on this occasion Forget Harleys and kph, Ian is singing of a Triumph ,B.S.A. or Norton at 120 mph..Those of us of a certain age can remember the "Cafe Racers" on the A1. www.webbikeworld.com/cafe-racers-2/
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Post by maddogfagin on Mar 18, 2022 6:46:57 GMT
Possibly one and the same thing; penny cheer may be rhyming slang for cheap beer or, on the other hand, it could also refer to gin I suppose. So chilling ale was cold beer although we Brits in Shakesperian times were partial to mead. Mead - it's what medieval knights and ripped Norsemen drink in every super-edgy warrior film. It's what they serve at your local Renaissance fair. But it's got a whole lot more character and room for variability than the super-sweet-and-boozy persona for which it is known. Sure, mead is fermented honey & water (that has occasionally got some fruit, grains, hops, or spices in it) but this does not mean you can always expect a cloyingly sweet mead. Sweet meads are admittedly common, but, like wine, mead can range from sweet to bone-dry. Mead can also be served hot or cold, weak or strong, still or sparkling. Mead's alcoholic content can range from 3.5% ABV all the way up to 22%.link
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Post by adospencer on Mar 18, 2022 7:51:58 GMT
As Arnold Schwarzenegger says in Kindergarten Cop, "I am going to ask you a bunch of questions and I want you to answer them immediately." Just kidding. But, ever since I was twelve years old, I have begun to wonder a few things about Ian's writing, and though it is not necessary to have the answers, it would impress the guests should I belt out certain facts, during a dinner party (think Mark Knopfler's "My Parties"). Over the years, I've gotten some of my questions answered. Here still, are some of the outstanding ones. Please humor me. I'd hate to take these questions to the grave. 1. What is penny cheer? Is that cheap ale? I'm interested in trying some. Can I buy it? 2. ...lute songs served in "chilling ale". What sort of ale would you suppose we are talking about? If one was to pretentiously sit outside on a spring evening, playing the album, what kind of 'ale' would one drink in order for the neighbors to think, "His love of that music knows no boundaries". 3. In the old days, if a girl told her mother that she walked all night on velvet green, would she get slapped in the face or would it be the sort of thing which was depicted in Christopher Lee's 1973 film Wicker Man, where everyone was hopping all over one another in an endless pagan ritual? 4. "And one day when the oil barons have all dripped dry..." When are we to expect things to get back to normal again? 50 years? 100 years? I can't take much more of this internet, fancy cars, cell phones, oil for the tractors to cut the grain to make my oatmeal. I know nothing of your modern ways. I'm just and unfrozen caveman (see Phil Hartman skits). So, when are we supposed to expect things to return to a pre-industrialized society? Or is this just pie in the sky romanticism on Ian's part? 5. Is the "old gent by the station" who "scuffs his toes on old fag packets lying in the street" an incarnation of Aqualung? 6. Have you ever stood in the April wood and called the new year in? Honestly, when I try these customs, I see the neighbors peep out from their windows across the way and quickly draw the blinds as if I'm some kind of crazy person, "He's taking that Jethro Troll stuff way too far." Better to ignore them or boil their rabbit in a pot of water? I thought we were supposed to adopt these customs! This isn't "I know it's only rock n roll but I like it" nonsense, is it? Is this really just another record album like Pop Goes the World by Men Without Hats? 7. "....renews the age-old purpose and contemplates the milking girl" A foreshadowing of the themes on Songs from the Wood? 8. "The transport caf'" means what, exactly? 9. My conundrum... (writing flaw?) If Ray was "doing around 120", I'm supposing it was 120 kph because the song takes place in North Yorkshire. That would make his speed at close to 200 MILES per hour (which I don't believe he was going quite that fast). UNLESS, his Harley has a mph speedometer and not a kph speedometer. If he was doing 120 kph, that would make more sense to me, because he'd be doing about 75 mph, which would still be a problem if one had to stop suddenly. I've been on several motorbike fatality scenes. So, which is it? Did Ian confuse society's here? I tried bringing this up in physics class once, but the teacher said, "Steven, out of here with that nonsense, until you've figured out just what the Mama Pajama caught Paul Simon doing!" 10. "Question all as to their ways and learn the secrets that they hold." Are we allowed to do this anymore? Going around asking people what they believe in? After all, it's not the 70's anymore (let alone, 550 AD) I'm kinda shy about going around asking people, "Are you ready for Samhain?" I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away! Can we discuss our beliefs? Ian certainly still thinks so? Or does he? I guess the thing that draws many of us into Tull lyrics, is that there is no right or wrong answer to most of these questions, sometimes no definitive answer at all! IA s lyrics were for the most part always open to the interpretation of the listener (or reader). Questions 1 thru 3 on your list are good examples of that, Ian hints at a medieval England of simple pleasures (Cheap Ale! ),superstition ,belief, appreciation of nature etc. but leaves us to paint our own picture of how that might appear. A time that has gone that we can only imagine . Question 4 is a common theme of his,concern for the environment and an appreciation of simpler (but not necessarily) better times when horses were such an important part of getting things done, but again with a touch of whimsy, leaving space for us all to have our own reflections on this. Is the modern world better or not? Question 5. Aqualung, I thought represented all down on their luck characters that we sadly see every time we are in a City. Social concern for those less fortunate. Question 6. Again a reference to those times of simple trust in the land, the seasons, and belief in God (s). Being in touch with that old world which though held back by electric light and modern living might still be out there in the shadows if we look for it. Question 7 . You answered yourself! Question 8 and 9 . More factual and easy to answer, we have covered these in the answers above. 10. A mystical reference to the time referred to as the Dark Ages , which yet might just have contained answers that have been lost in the mists of time. And just what do we have believe in now? Makes us question ourselves really! BUT having droned on, this is just my off the cuff interpretation and what do I know? Such is the way Ian writes that for the most part its up to the individual to decide what the lyrics mean to them personally. Often there is no literal answer. You must decide the picture these lyrics paint for you! "Songs from the Wood" (as referred to in some of these questions) is my favourite album for the reasons touched on here . I love that imagery of a medieval English Summer with the (ahem) sap rising, bees buzzing, and the birds singing. (Incidentally that has been my disappointment with IA s output on more recent albums, his lyrics have been more literal and less open to our own interpretation, less room for discussions like this! ).
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Post by Budding Stately Hero on Mar 18, 2022 10:27:29 GMT
As Arnold Schwarzenegger says in Kindergarten Cop, "I am going to ask you a bunch of questions and I want you to answer them immediately." Just kidding. But, ever since I was twelve years old, I have begun to wonder a few things about Ian's writing, and though it is not necessary to have the answers, it would impress the guests should I belt out certain facts, during a dinner party (think Mark Knopfler's "My Parties"). Over the years, I've gotten some of my questions answered. Here still, are some of the outstanding ones. Please humor me. I'd hate to take these questions to the grave. 1. What is penny cheer? Is that cheap ale? I'm interested in trying some. Can I buy it? 2. ...lute songs served in "chilling ale". What sort of ale would you suppose we are talking about? If one was to pretentiously sit outside on a spring evening, playing the album, what kind of 'ale' would one drink in order for the neighbors to think, "His love of that music knows no boundaries". 3. In the old days, if a girl told her mother that she walked all night on velvet green, would she get slapped in the face or would it be the sort of thing which was depicted in Christopher Lee's 1973 film Wicker Man, where everyone was hopping all over one another in an endless pagan ritual? 4. "And one day when the oil barons have all dripped dry..." When are we to expect things to get back to normal again? 50 years? 100 years? I can't take much more of this internet, fancy cars, cell phones, oil for the tractors to cut the grain to make my oatmeal. I know nothing of your modern ways. I'm just and unfrozen caveman (see Phil Hartman skits). So, when are we supposed to expect things to return to a pre-industrialized society? Or is this just pie in the sky romanticism on Ian's part? 5. Is the "old gent by the station" who "scuffs his toes on old fag packets lying in the street" an incarnation of Aqualung? 6. Have you ever stood in the April wood and called the new year in? Honestly, when I try these customs, I see the neighbors peep out from their windows across the way and quickly draw the blinds as if I'm some kind of crazy person, "He's taking that Jethro Troll stuff way too far." Better to ignore them or boil their rabbit in a pot of water? I thought we were supposed to adopt these customs! This isn't "I know it's only rock n roll but I like it" nonsense, is it? Is this really just another record album like Pop Goes the World by Men Without Hats? 7. "....renews the age-old purpose and contemplates the milking girl" A foreshadowing of the themes on Songs from the Wood? 8. "The transport caf'" means what, exactly? 9. My conundrum... (writing flaw?) If Ray was "doing around 120", I'm supposing it was 120 kph because the song takes place in North Yorkshire. That would make his speed at close to 200 MILES per hour (which I don't believe he was going quite that fast). UNLESS, his Harley has a mph speedometer and not a kph speedometer. If he was doing 120 kph, that would make more sense to me, because he'd be doing about 75 mph, which would still be a problem if one had to stop suddenly. I've been on several motorbike fatality scenes. So, which is it? Did Ian confuse society's here? I tried bringing this up in physics class once, but the teacher said, "Steven, out of here with that nonsense, until you've figured out just what the Mama Pajama caught Paul Simon doing!" 10. "Question all as to their ways and learn the secrets that they hold." Are we allowed to do this anymore? Going around asking people what they believe in? After all, it's not the 70's anymore (let alone, 550 AD) I'm kinda shy about going around asking people, "Are you ready for Samhain?" I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away! Can we discuss our beliefs? Ian certainly still thinks so? Or does he? Question 9 is easy enough to answer. Its 120 m.p.h. , because despite the European Union trying to force k.p.h. on us some time ago, most of us in the UK still use miles per hour, even more so back in the days where the song is set .Unlikely to be a Harley among that blue collar class of Bikers in England at this time. More likely to be B.S.A. , Norton, or Triumph.. and aren't your maths confused? You mention 120 kph as being both 75 mph and 200 mph !! . Anyway I think you overcomplicated this one and the "confusing societies" you mention is you on this occasion Forget Harleys and kph, Ian is singing of a Triumph ,B.S.A. or Norton at 120 mph..Those of us of a certain age can remember the "Cafe Racers" on the A1. www.webbikeworld.com/cafe-racers-2/Yes, I apologize. I think I did get things a little confused. I had no idea you used mph there. I certainly overcomplicated it. Haha! Thank you.
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Post by Budding Stately Hero on Mar 18, 2022 10:39:25 GMT
Possibly one and the same thing; penny cheer may be rhyming slang for cheap beer or, on the other hand, it could also refer to gin I suppose. So chilling ale was cold beer although we Brits in Shakesperian times were partial to mead. Mead - it's what medieval knights and ripped Norsemen drink in every super-edgy warrior film. It's what they serve at your local Renaissance fair. But it's got a whole lot more character and room for variability than the super-sweet-and-boozy persona for which it is known. Sure, mead is fermented honey & water (that has occasionally got some fruit, grains, hops, or spices in it) but this does not mean you can always expect a cloyingly sweet mead. Sweet meads are admittedly common, but, like wine, mead can range from sweet to bone-dry. Mead can also be served hot or cold, weak or strong, still or sparkling. Mead's alcoholic content can range from 3.5% ABV all the way up to 22%.linkThat article on Mead was very interesting. You're suggesting mead, but mead, it says, it very sweet. Ale is bitter. If Ian is saying, Ale, does he mean 'beer' or the type of beer that is ale? It's probably Mead that he's singing about, due to the time period. See, we all know there are many types of 'beer'. You just go into the local distributor and there are dozens and dozens of styles of beer, including the ales (I.P.A. has become a popular Ale in recentl years). So, I was just wondering when he referred to 'Ale', was he just being rhythmic, or did he specifically mean "Ale", and if so, what type of ale would someone be drinking? Maybe, he just meant "beer". Hopefully, he's not talking about headache beer such as Budweiser. That image destroys the song for me. I like to believe he's talking about some homemade Ale. Mead, being so sweet sounding, doesn't too tasty. Sweet beer? Yuck. Thanks for being a good sport, kind sir.
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Post by Budding Stately Hero on Mar 18, 2022 11:05:24 GMT
As Arnold Schwarzenegger says in Kindergarten Cop, "I am going to ask you a bunch of questions and I want you to answer them immediately." Just kidding. But, ever since I was twelve years old, I have begun to wonder a few things about Ian's writing, and though it is not necessary to have the answers, it would impress the guests should I belt out certain facts, during a dinner party (think Mark Knopfler's "My Parties"). Over the years, I've gotten some of my questions answered. Here still, are some of the outstanding ones. Please humor me. I'd hate to take these questions to the grave. 1. What is penny cheer? Is that cheap ale? I'm interested in trying some. Can I buy it? 2. ...lute songs served in "chilling ale". What sort of ale would you suppose we are talking about? If one was to pretentiously sit outside on a spring evening, playing the album, what kind of 'ale' would one drink in order for the neighbors to think, "His love of that music knows no boundaries". 3. In the old days, if a girl told her mother that she walked all night on velvet green, would she get slapped in the face or would it be the sort of thing which was depicted in Christopher Lee's 1973 film Wicker Man, where everyone was hopping all over one another in an endless pagan ritual? 4. "And one day when the oil barons have all dripped dry..." When are we to expect things to get back to normal again? 50 years? 100 years? I can't take much more of this internet, fancy cars, cell phones, oil for the tractors to cut the grain to make my oatmeal. I know nothing of your modern ways. I'm just and unfrozen caveman (see Phil Hartman skits). So, when are we supposed to expect things to return to a pre-industrialized society? Or is this just pie in the sky romanticism on Ian's part? 5. Is the "old gent by the station" who "scuffs his toes on old fag packets lying in the street" an incarnation of Aqualung? 6. Have you ever stood in the April wood and called the new year in? Honestly, when I try these customs, I see the neighbors peep out from their windows across the way and quickly draw the blinds as if I'm some kind of crazy person, "He's taking that Jethro Troll stuff way too far." Better to ignore them or boil their rabbit in a pot of water? I thought we were supposed to adopt these customs! This isn't "I know it's only rock n roll but I like it" nonsense, is it? Is this really just another record album like Pop Goes the World by Men Without Hats? 7. "....renews the age-old purpose and contemplates the milking girl" A foreshadowing of the themes on Songs from the Wood? 8. "The transport caf'" means what, exactly? 9. My conundrum... (writing flaw?) If Ray was "doing around 120", I'm supposing it was 120 kph because the song takes place in North Yorkshire. That would make his speed at close to 200 MILES per hour (which I don't believe he was going quite that fast). UNLESS, his Harley has a mph speedometer and not a kph speedometer. If he was doing 120 kph, that would make more sense to me, because he'd be doing about 75 mph, which would still be a problem if one had to stop suddenly. I've been on several motorbike fatality scenes. So, which is it? Did Ian confuse society's here? I tried bringing this up in physics class once, but the teacher said, "Steven, out of here with that nonsense, until you've figured out just what the Mama Pajama caught Paul Simon doing!" 10. "Question all as to their ways and learn the secrets that they hold." Are we allowed to do this anymore? Going around asking people what they believe in? After all, it's not the 70's anymore (let alone, 550 AD) I'm kinda shy about going around asking people, "Are you ready for Samhain?" I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away! Can we discuss our beliefs? Ian certainly still thinks so? Or does he? I guess the thing that draws many of us into Tull lyrics, is that there is no right or wrong answer to most of these questions, sometimes no definitive answer at all! IA s lyrics were for the most part always open to the interpretation of the listener (or reader). Questions 1 thru 3 on your list are good examples of that, Ian hints at a medieval England of simple pleasures (Cheap Ale! ),superstition ,belief, appreciation of nature etc. but leaves us to paint our own picture of how that might appear. A time that has gone that we can only imagine . Question 4 is a common theme of his,concern for the environment and an appreciation of simpler (but not necessarily) better times when horses were such an important part of getting things done, but again with a touch of whimsy, leaving space for us all to have our own reflections on this. Is the modern world better or not? Question 5. Aqualung, I thought represented all down on their luck characters that we sadly see every time we are in a City. Social concern for those less fortunate. Question 6. Again a reference to those times of simple trust in the land, the seasons, and belief in God (s). Being in touch with that old world which though held back by electric light and modern living might still be out there in the shadows if we look for it. Question 7 . You answered yourself! Question 8 and 9 . More factual and easy to answer, we have covered these in the answers above. 10. A mystical reference to the time referred to as the Dark Ages , which yet might just have contained answers that have been lost in the mists of time. And just what do we have believe in now? Makes us question ourselves really! BUT having droned on, this is just my off the cuff interpretation and what do I know? Such is the way Ian writes that for the most part its up to the individual to decide what the lyrics mean to them personally. Often there is no literal answer. You must decide the picture these lyrics paint for you! "Songs from the Wood" (as referred to in some of these questions) is my favourite album for the reasons touched on here . I love that imagery of a medieval English Summer with the (ahem) sap rising, bees buzzing, and the birds singing. (Incidentally that has been my disappointment with IA s output on more recent albums, his lyrics have been more literal and less open to our own interpretation, less room for discussions like this! ). Ado, Several images you have touched on, I feel, have hit the nail on the head, so to speak. I am in agreement with your statement, in that I also felt at a loss over the years with Ian's lyrical output regarding the lyrics being, for me, less romantic, less mystical and certainly more literal. Songs from the Wood has kept its mystery over these past 45 years. That is partially due to the time period being lost, and only a small fraction of information available to us, say about the Druids, for instance. When I listen to "Songs from the Wood", on one occasion I pretend he is speaking about the here and now, in my time, on my acre, in my farm community, as I work outside with my hands and very little power tools. On other occasions, I pretend I'm in a time machine bound for the Middle Ages and I'm 'across the pond' in a nearby farm looking out towards the standing stones, or on the island Skellig Michael, or up in the Highlands, or on Islay or Skye. I get those feelings from the trilogy albums, all the time, and I often play all the songs on the three albums (along with the outtakes) on random play. It whisks me away to another time. I do not think any other form of music has mesmerized me quite in this way. For me, it's deeply personal. My questions were partially just meant to be a little fun and stir up some conversation. I recently retired and have a little more time on my hands. Trust me, none of my local friends within arm's reach care one iota about this great music. Regarding your answer to Question 4; "is the modern wold better or not?". No. It most certainly is not, in my mind. It is definitely more convenient, more comfortable. But, are we fundamentally a happier species for having such conveniences and comforts? I say we've lost our way, most assuredly. Not using the stars, the tides, to find our direction? Using electronic equipment such as what we are all using now? Yes, convenient, even fun. Better? Uh-uh. We've lost our way. I read that every 18,000 or so years, society resets. Everything gets broken down and has to start all over again. Some relics survive, other do not. There is talk that all of this stuff has happened before. So, when the oil barons have all dripped dry, I hope in my next incarnation, I'm the one who's on the back of the plough. Maybe a hypocrital statement, but certainly a romantic one. Thank you!
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Post by bunkerfan on Mar 19, 2022 8:13:19 GMT
Possibly one and the same thing; penny cheer may be rhyming slang for cheap beer or, on the other hand, it could also refer to gin I suppose. So chilling ale was cold beer although we Brits in Shakesperian times were partial to mead. Mead - it's what medieval knights and ripped Norsemen drink in every super-edgy warrior film. It's what they serve at your local Renaissance fair. But it's got a whole lot more character and room for variability than the super-sweet-and-boozy persona for which it is known. Sure, mead is fermented honey & water (that has occasionally got some fruit, grains, hops, or spices in it) but this does not mean you can always expect a cloyingly sweet mead. Sweet meads are admittedly common, but, like wine, mead can range from sweet to bone-dry. Mead can also be served hot or cold, weak or strong, still or sparkling. Mead's alcoholic content can range from 3.5% ABV all the way up to 22%.linkThat article on Mead was very interesting. You're suggesting mead, but mead, it says, it very sweet. Ale is bitter. If Ian is saying, Ale, does he mean 'beer' or the type of beer that is ale? It's probably Mead that he's singing about, due to the time period. See, we all know there are many types of 'beer'. You just go into the local distributor and there are dozens and dozens of styles of beer, including the ales (I.P.A. has become a popular Ale in recentl years). So, I was just wondering when he referred to 'Ale', was he just being rhythmic, or did he specifically mean "Ale", and if so, what type of ale would someone be drinking? Maybe, he just meant "beer". Hopefully, he's not talking about headache beer such as Budweiser. That image destroys the song for me. I like to believe he's talking about some homemade Ale. Mead, being so sweet sounding, doesn't too tasty. Sweet beer? Yuck. Thanks for being a good sport, kind sir. Lindisfarne Island is just a couple of hour's up the road from me and not only famous for it's Christian heritage but also famous for Lindisfarne Mead. 'St.Aidan's Winery' the home of 'Lindisfarne Mead' is situated in the centre of Holy Island village adjacent to the market place. The showroom has been open to the public since 1968 and attracts over 200,000 visitors annually from all over the world. Each adult visiting the winery showroom has the opportunity to a free sample of the world famous Lindisfarne Mead. Lindisfarne Mead is a unique alcoholic fortified wine manufactured here on the Holy Island of Lindisfarne from fermented white grapes, honey, herbs, the pure natural water from the island's artesian well fortified with fine spirits. Mead has for centuries been renowned as an 'aphrodisiac' and the word Honeymoon is derived from the ancient Norwegian custom of having newly-weds drink mead for a whole moon (month) in order to increase their fertility and therefore their chances of a happy and fulfilled marriage... World famous 'Lindisfarne Mead' is not only the connoisseur's choice but makes a supreme drink for young and old alike whatever the season. To many it is regarded as the 'nectar of the gods'. Lindisfarne Mead is very sweet and certainly an acquired taste 🤨
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Post by adospencer on Mar 19, 2022 8:28:40 GMT
That article on Mead was very interesting. You're suggesting mead, but mead, it says, it very sweet. Ale is bitter. If Ian is saying, Ale, does he mean 'beer' or the type of beer that is ale? It's probably Mead that he's singing about, due to the time period. See, we all know there are many types of 'beer'. You just go into the local distributor and there are dozens and dozens of styles of beer, including the ales (I.P.A. has become a popular Ale in recentl years). So, I was just wondering when he referred to 'Ale', was he just being rhythmic, or did he specifically mean "Ale", and if so, what type of ale would someone be drinking? Maybe, he just meant "beer". Hopefully, he's not talking about headache beer such as Budweiser. That image destroys the song for me. I like to believe he's talking about some homemade Ale. Mead, being so sweet sounding, doesn't too tasty. Sweet beer? Yuck. Thanks for being a good sport, kind sir. Lindisfarne Island is just a couple of hour's up the road from me and not only famous for it's Christian heritage but also famous for Lindisfarne Mead. 'St.Aidan's Winery' the home of 'Lindisfarne Mead' is situated in the centre of Holy Island village adjacent to the market place. The showroom has been open to the public since 1968 and attracts over 200,000 visitors annually from all over the world. Each adult visiting the winery showroom has the opportunity to a free sample of the world famous Lindisfarne Mead. Lindisfarne Mead is a unique alcoholic fortified wine manufactured here on the Holy Island of Lindisfarne from fermented white grapes, honey, herbs, the pure natural water from the island's artesian well fortified with fine spirits. Mead has for centuries been renowned as an 'aphrodisiac' and the word Honeymoon is derived from the ancient Norwegian custom of having newly-weds drink mead for a whole moon (month) in order to increase their fertility and therefore their chances of a happy and fulfilled marriage... World famous 'Lindisfarne Mead' is not only the connoisseur's choice but makes a supreme drink for young and old alike whatever the season. To many it is regarded as the 'nectar of the gods'. Lindisfarne Mead is very sweet and certainly an acquired taste 🤨 That particular Mead looks worth having just for the label!. I once got very drunk on Mead, (it slips down easily!) at a "Medieval Banquet" (fashionable in the 70s) in a swish hotel. I awoke around 7am the next morning in a field,miles from anywhere covered in mud with cold rain on my face. All I had with me was a large blue towel with the Hotel logo embossed on it. When I tentatively enquired later what had happened it seemed I returned from the washroom with the towel draped around my neck, claimed it was my scarf, and offered to fight anyone who tried to take it! Not my finest moment. My girlfriend dumped me at the venue too apparently, though I found that out later too. Powerful stuff Mead. Enjoy with caution. Never had any more to this day.
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Post by Budding Stately Hero on Mar 19, 2022 11:43:45 GMT
Lindisfarne Island is just a couple of hour's up the road from me and not only famous for it's Christian heritage but also famous for Lindisfarne Mead. 'St.Aidan's Winery' the home of 'Lindisfarne Mead' is situated in the centre of Holy Island village adjacent to the market place. The showroom has been open to the public since 1968 and attracts over 200,000 visitors annually from all over the world. Each adult visiting the winery showroom has the opportunity to a free sample of the world famous Lindisfarne Mead. Lindisfarne Mead is a unique alcoholic fortified wine manufactured here on the Holy Island of Lindisfarne from fermented white grapes, honey, herbs, the pure natural water from the island's artesian well fortified with fine spirits. Mead has for centuries been renowned as an 'aphrodisiac' and the word Honeymoon is derived from the ancient Norwegian custom of having newly-weds drink mead for a whole moon (month) in order to increase their fertility and therefore their chances of a happy and fulfilled marriage... World famous 'Lindisfarne Mead' is not only the connoisseur's choice but makes a supreme drink for young and old alike whatever the season. To many it is regarded as the 'nectar of the gods'. Lindisfarne Mead is very sweet and certainly an acquired taste 🤨 That particular Mead looks worth having just for the label!. I once got very drunk on Mead, (it slips down easily!) at a "Medieval Banquet" (fashionable in the 70s) in a swish hotel. I awoke around 7am the next morning in a field,miles from anywhere covered in mud with cold rain on my face. All I had with me was a large blue towel with the Hotel logo embossed on it. When I tentatively enquired later what had happened it seemed I returned from the washroom with the towel draped around my neck, claimed it was my scarf, and offered to fight anyone who tried to take it! Not my finest moment. My girlfriend dumped me at the venue too apparently, though I found that out later too. Powerful stuff Mead. Enjoy with caution. Never had any more to this day. I needed a laugh this morning, really bad, and you gave me one. That is funny story Ado. The things we do and say when we are in the spirit of things.
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Post by Budding Stately Hero on Mar 19, 2022 11:45:21 GMT
That article on Mead was very interesting. You're suggesting mead, but mead, it says, it very sweet. Ale is bitter. If Ian is saying, Ale, does he mean 'beer' or the type of beer that is ale? It's probably Mead that he's singing about, due to the time period. See, we all know there are many types of 'beer'. You just go into the local distributor and there are dozens and dozens of styles of beer, including the ales (I.P.A. has become a popular Ale in recentl years). So, I was just wondering when he referred to 'Ale', was he just being rhythmic, or did he specifically mean "Ale", and if so, what type of ale would someone be drinking? Maybe, he just meant "beer". Hopefully, he's not talking about headache beer such as Budweiser. That image destroys the song for me. I like to believe he's talking about some homemade Ale. Mead, being so sweet sounding, doesn't too tasty. Sweet beer? Yuck. Thanks for being a good sport, kind sir. Lindisfarne Island is just a couple of hour's up the road from me and not only famous for it's Christian heritage but also famous for Lindisfarne Mead. 'St.Aidan's Winery' the home of 'Lindisfarne Mead' is situated in the centre of Holy Island village adjacent to the market place. The showroom has been open to the public since 1968 and attracts over 200,000 visitors annually from all over the world. Each adult visiting the winery showroom has the opportunity to a free sample of the world famous Lindisfarne Mead. Lindisfarne Mead is a unique alcoholic fortified wine manufactured here on the Holy Island of Lindisfarne from fermented white grapes, honey, herbs, the pure natural water from the island's artesian well fortified with fine spirits. Mead has for centuries been renowned as an 'aphrodisiac' and the word Honeymoon is derived from the ancient Norwegian custom of having newly-weds drink mead for a whole moon (month) in order to increase their fertility and therefore their chances of a happy and fulfilled marriage... World famous 'Lindisfarne Mead' is not only the connoisseur's choice but makes a supreme drink for young and old alike whatever the season. To many it is regarded as the 'nectar of the gods'. Lindisfarne Mead is very sweet and certainly an acquired taste 🤨 I would love to try that, someday. Thank you for sharing this. I must try to find mead, or some reasonable facsimile, somewhere near Maryland. Not sure if that will ever be possible. Or maybe, someday when I find my way to England.
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Post by Budding Stately Hero on Mar 19, 2022 14:27:37 GMT
I just want to take a minute and say Thank you to all you guys for always being so much fun and interesting on here. Sometimes life really kicks you in the rump and this forum tends to be a bit of an escape for me. So, thanks!
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Post by maddogfagin on Mar 19, 2022 16:45:19 GMT
I just want to take a minute and say Thank you to all you guys for always being so much fun and interesting on here. Sometimes life really kicks you in the rump and this forum tends to be a bit of an escape for me. So, thanks! Thanks for the above, especially if you're ever over this side of the pond we'll have to try some Cornish mead. cornishmead.co.uk/
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Post by adospencer on Mar 19, 2022 18:08:27 GMT
I just want to take a minute and say Thank you to all you guys for always being so much fun and interesting on here. Sometimes life really kicks you in the rump and this forum tends to be a bit of an escape for me. So, thanks! Thanks for the above, especially if you're ever over this side of the pond we'll have to try some Cornish mead. cornishmead.co.uk/Yes, come to England, Im due a new scarf!
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Post by Budding Stately Hero on Mar 19, 2022 18:46:41 GMT
Thanks for the above, especially if you're ever over this side of the pond we'll have to try some Cornish mead. cornishmead.co.uk/Yes, come to England, Im due a new scarf! Absolutely! Thank you! I'm all smiles right now.
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Post by steelmonkey on Mar 20, 2022 0:24:10 GMT
If my daughter came home and said she had walked all night on Velvet Green I would ask her to wipe her feet before she trailed blades of grass or mud throughout the nice clean house that I managed to sweep up while she was out on Velvet Green.
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Post by Budding Stately Hero on Mar 20, 2022 6:47:01 GMT
Please, good people, I am in haste. Who lives in that castle? Oh, sorry. I meant to say, is Mead considered an Ale? When Ian wrote about Penny Cheer, was he talking about Mead or a certain style of beer? When Ian wrote, "lute songs served in chilling ale" was he talking about mead or actually writing specifically about "Ale"? Sometimes, people call beer "ale" just to call it ale. I looked up some of the oldest recipes. Please forgive me, my UK friends, but I did not know the history of Bass Ale (1777) until now. I found an ale from the 1600's even, www.shepherdneame.co.uk (Shepherd Neame). WOW! Then, there is Chimay Ale (Belgium 1862), St. Sixtus Ale (Belgium 1868) and even Weihenstephan, which I do not think is an ale, but it's from the 10th century. 10th CENTURY! Maybe, I can make my own ALE from home! Ah, what to name it, "Ales from the Wood", "Jack's Green Ale", "Ale of Wonder", Velvet Ale, "Acres Ale", "Journeyman Ale", "Broadford Ale", "North Sea...North Sea Aleeeeeeee". Hmmm. Well, Dylan and Hagar, all these rock stars have their liquors. Why can't Ian have his own ALE? I know at least 60 people from, well this forum, who would buy it.
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Post by maddogfagin on Mar 20, 2022 6:54:28 GMT
Please, good people, I am in haste. Who lives in that castle? Oh, sorry. I meant to say, is Mead considered an Ale? When Ian wrote about Penny Cheer, was he talking about Mead or a certain style of beer? When Ian wrote, "lute songs served in chilling ale" was he talking about mead or actually writing specifically about "Ale"? Sometimes, people call beer "ale" just to call it ale. I looked up some of the oldest recipes. Please forgive me, my UK friends, but I did not know the history of Bass Ale (1777) until now. I found an ale from the 1600's even, www.shepherdneame.co.uk (Shepherd Neame). WOW! Then, there is Chimay Ale (Belgium 1862), St. Sixtus Ale (Belgium 1868) and even Weihenstephan, which I do not think is an ale, but it's from the 10th century. 10th CENTURY! Maybe, I can make my own ALE from home! Ah, what to name it, "Ales from the Wood", "Jack's Green Ale", "Ale of Wonder", Velvet Ale, "Acres Ale", "Journeyman Ale", "Broadford Ale", "North Sea...North Sea Aleeeeeeee". Hmmm. Well, Dylan and Hagar, all these rock stars have their liquors. Why can't Ian have his own ALE? I know at least 60 people from, well this forum, who would buy it. From elecrocutas via Pete McHugh
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Post by steelmonkey on Mar 21, 2022 0:36:08 GMT
For awhile, Theakston Ale was pretty Tull authorized.
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Post by adospencer on Mar 21, 2022 15:26:42 GMT
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Post by maddogfagin on Mar 21, 2022 18:01:38 GMT
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Post by woodsongs on May 28, 2022 11:39:42 GMT
Jethro Tull: Every Album, Every Song (On Track) I have been thinking about buying this book for some time now. I was wondering if maddogfaggin, or any of the other regular posters on here could advise me whether it is worth the money or not? Many thanks in advance!
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Post by adospencer on May 28, 2022 13:25:29 GMT
Jethro Tull: Every Album, Every Song (On Track) I have been thinking about buying this book for some time now. I was wondering if maddogfaggin, or any of the other regular posters on here could advise me whether it is worth the money or not? Many thanks in advance! I reviewed this book in depth on the Amazon (UK) site (as Ado). In my opinion its a dreadful,dreadful book . A bewildering and annoying read. Written in an overblown, pretentious style full of inaccuracies with too much personal opinion stated as fact (using as many wordy sentences strung together as he can , which ironically end up making little sense) . The books in this series purport to be a guide but this is a vanity project written by a guy who thinks he knows best. A very annoying read. As a small example he sees the wonderful "Broadsword and the Beast" as a "bland relic " of "paltry songwriting" thinks "Jack in the Green" is about May Day, and seems to believe "Rover" is about Ian Andersons dog!. The cover calls the series "On track"..... .. "Off track" more like! The worst thing about is anyone looking to hear Tull for the first time taking this book as the "guide" it claims to be would start with "A Passion Play" which the author raves about. I would argue that because APP is a hard listen ,especially for newbies, they would give up on Tull forever after about ten minutes! For the rest of us, we already know our favourites and don't appreciate being told what to like especially by someone who has mostly missed the point! We all have our favourites and of course the author is entitled to his. But with a book like this surely there is a duty to be a little more impartial? I read it so you don't have to!
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Post by woodsongs on May 28, 2022 13:44:44 GMT
Jethro Tull: Every Album, Every Song (On Track) I have been thinking about buying this book for some time now. I was wondering if maddogfaggin, or any of the other regular posters on here could advise me whether it is worth the money or not? Many thanks in advance! I reviewed this book in depth on the Amazon (UK) site (as Ado). In my opinion its a dreadful,dreadful book . A bewildering and annoying read. Written in an overblown, pretentious style full of inaccuracies with too much personal opinion stated as fact (using as many wordy sentences strung together as he can , which ironically end up making little sense) . The books in this series purport to be a guide but this is a vanity project written by a guy who thinks he knows best. A very annoying read. As a small example he sees the wonderful "Broadsword and the Beast" as a "bland relic " of "paltry songwriting" thinks "Jack in the Green" is about May Day, and seems to believe "Rover" is about Ian Andersons dog!. The cover calls the series "On track"..... .. "Off track" more like! I read it so you don't have to! Thanks for that review 'adospencer'. You have just saved me upwards of £15.00. I do have a copy of 'Minstrels In The Gallery' which I loved. This is the only book I own about 'Tull'. I would be interested in any other Jethro Tull Book recommendations, if anybody can point me in the right direction.
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Post by adospencer on May 28, 2022 13:53:16 GMT
I reviewed this book in depth on the Amazon (UK) site (as Ado). In my opinion its a dreadful,dreadful book . A bewildering and annoying read. Written in an overblown, pretentious style full of inaccuracies with too much personal opinion stated as fact (using as many wordy sentences strung together as he can , which ironically end up making little sense) . The books in this series purport to be a guide but this is a vanity project written by a guy who thinks he knows best. A very annoying read. As a small example he sees the wonderful "Broadsword and the Beast" as a "bland relic " of "paltry songwriting" thinks "Jack in the Green" is about May Day, and seems to believe "Rover" is about Ian Andersons dog!. The cover calls the series "On track"..... .. "Off track" more like! I read it so you don't have to! Thanks for that review 'adospencer'. You have just saved me upwards of £15.00. I do have a copy of 'Minstrels In The Gallery' which I loved. This is the only book I own about 'Tull'. I would be interested in any other Jethro Tull Book recommendations, if anybody can point me in the right direction. I think the problem with any book written by a fan, is that theyoften cant seem to resist weaving themselves into the story and waving the backstage pass in our faces. There is a new series of books appearing now by a Laura Shenton . I have read her book on the making of "Minstrel in the Gallery" and I believe there are others in the series. They seem to rely heavily on press cuttings from the time, but are interesting and she doesn't force her own opinions on us, so I will read her other efforts
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Post by bunkerfan on May 28, 2022 15:25:25 GMT
I reviewed this book in depth on the Amazon (UK) site (as Ado). In my opinion its a dreadful,dreadful book . A bewildering and annoying read. Written in an overblown, pretentious style full of inaccuracies with too much personal opinion stated as fact (using as many wordy sentences strung together as he can , which ironically end up making little sense) . The books in this series purport to be a guide but this is a vanity project written by a guy who thinks he knows best. A very annoying read. As a small example he sees the wonderful "Broadsword and the Beast" as a "bland relic " of "paltry songwriting" thinks "Jack in the Green" is about May Day, and seems to believe "Rover" is about Ian Andersons dog!. The cover calls the series "On track"..... .. "Off track" more like! I read it so you don't have to! Thanks for that review 'adospencer'. You have just saved me upwards of £15.00. I do have a copy of 'Minstrels In The Gallery' which I loved. This is the only book I own about 'Tull'. I would be interested in any other Jethro Tull Book recommendations, if anybody can point me in the right direction. As well as owning a copy of 'Minstrels in the Gallery', I also have a copy of 'A Passion Play' by Brian Rabey which I like very much Read all about it...... jethrotull.proboards.com/thread/3033/passion-play-brian-rabey
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Post by maddogfagin on May 28, 2022 16:01:04 GMT
Thanks for that review 'adospencer'. You have just saved me upwards of £15.00. I do have a copy of 'Minstrels In The Gallery' which I loved. This is the only book I own about 'Tull'. I would be interested in any other Jethro Tull Book recommendations, if anybody can point me in the right direction. As well as owning a copy of 'Minstrels in the Gallery', I also have a copy of 'A Passion Play' by Brian Rabey which I like very much Read all about it...... jethrotull.proboards.com/thread/3033/passion-play-brian-rabeyAt the very least these four And if you have deep pockets
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Post by woodsongs on May 29, 2022 6:27:35 GMT
Thanks for the recommendations. I already have 'Minstrels In The Gallery', but will look for decent second hand copies of the others you have suggested. (I have short arms and deep pockets so will give the last book a miss).
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