|
Post by acreman on Sept 24, 2020 16:43:15 GMT
Which late-eighties Tull epic do you prefer, Budapest or The Whaler's Dues?
Ian has often cited Budapest as his favorite Tull tune, and it really is an excellent piece, with a memorable main melody, great vocal sections, and an incredible instrumental break.
Whaler's Dues is interesting and cool in some very unusual ways--the subject matter itself, for instance, and the choruses featuring pleas for forgiveness and ensemble "No!" responses. It also has a great atmospheric opening, as well as an awesomely heavy riff (which Martin starts playing about four minutes in).
So Budapest is certainly a classic, but I actually prefer Whaler by a bit. You?
|
|
|
Post by bunkerfan on Sept 24, 2020 18:34:06 GMT
Which late-eighties Tull epic do you prefer, Budapest or The Whaler's Dues? Ian has often cited Budapest as his favorite Tull tune, and it really is an excellent piece, with a memorable main melody, great vocal sections, and an incredible instrumental break. Whaler's Dues is interesting and cool in some very unusual ways--the subject matter itself, for instance, and the choruses featuring pleas for forgiveness and ensemble "No!" responses. It also has a great atmospheric opening, as well as an awesomely heavy riff (which Martin starts playing about four minutes in). So Budapest is certainly a classic, but I actually prefer Whaler by a bit. You? The Whalers Dues is one of my all time favourite Tull tracks but for me Budapest is special so it gets the nod from me
|
|
|
Post by Jack -A- Lynn on Sept 24, 2020 19:41:05 GMT
Which late-eighties Tull epic do you prefer, Budapest or The Whaler's Dues? Ian has often cited Budapest as his favorite Tull tune, and it really is an excellent piece, with a memorable main melody, great vocal sections, and an incredible instrumental break. Whaler's Dues is interesting and cool in some very unusual ways--the subject matter itself, for instance, and the choruses featuring pleas for forgiveness and ensemble "No!" responses. It also has a great atmospheric opening, as well as an awesomely heavy riff (which Martin starts playing about four minutes in). So Budapest is certainly a classic, but I actually prefer Whaler by a bit. You? I knew Budapest before The whaler's dues. From the first time i heard it i loved it very much, so i am emotionally attached to this. One of my all time favourites. But Whaler's dues is wonderful too. I put it together in the same level musically, both of them are music magic. Mind traveling..i suppose you are interesting most for opinions upon music but i can't describe very well the music part. i' m sure you know what i would say if i could. As for the lyrics and consepts,i really love sea stories. Budapest's lyrics although are misunderstood, speaks to me cause one day when i was a waitress at a concert i had a similar experience with a musician ❤️...but it never happened anything between us. Ahh you made it difficult again , it is so hard between tull songs! i know you do this not necessarily to choose one of them but mostly for analyzing them.
|
|
|
Post by acreman on Sept 25, 2020 2:59:24 GMT
Which late-eighties Tull epic do you prefer, Budapest or The Whaler's Dues? Ian has often cited Budapest as his favorite Tull tune, and it really is an excellent piece, with a memorable main melody, great vocal sections, and an incredible instrumental break. Whaler's Dues is interesting and cool in some very unusual ways--the subject matter itself, for instance, and the choruses featuring pleas for forgiveness and ensemble "No!" responses. It also has a great atmospheric opening, as well as an awesomely heavy riff (which Martin starts playing about four minutes in). So Budapest is certainly a classic, but I actually prefer Whaler by a bit. You? I knew Budapest before The whaler's dues. From the first time i heard it i loved it very much, so i am emotionally attached to this. One of my all time favourites. But Whaler's dues is wonderful too. I put it together in the same level musically, both of them are music magic. Mind traveling..i suppose you are interesting most for opinions upon music but i can't describe very well the music part. i' m sure you know what i would say if i could. As for the lyrics and consepts,i really love sea stories. Budapest's lyrics although are misunderstood, speaks to me cause one day when i was a waitress at a concert i had a similar experience with a musician ❤️...but it never happened anything between us. Ahh you made it difficult again , it is so hard between tull songs! i know you do this not necessarily to choose one of them but mostly for analyzing them. You're absolutely right: I'm more interested in having good discussion about the songs than I am in declaring a winner between them. I like hearing what other people have to say about Tull's music--including their descriptions of how it makes them feel. I can tell how special Budapest is to you, and I think it's really awesome that it resonates with you like that!
|
|
|
Post by steelmonkey on Sept 25, 2020 3:07:07 GMT
Budapest but only barely. Whaler's Dues very very close and has aged well. Both songs should have been Baker Street Muse length album sides...It is known that Budapest started as a much longer song and Whaler's Dues could have easily segued in Strange Avenues and been a single more epic, epic. For a few weks, White Innocence sounded like it belonged in this league...but it dropped off quickly and suffers from trying too hard to be like Budapest.
|
|
|
Post by acreman on Sept 25, 2020 3:39:22 GMT
For a few weks, White Innocence sounded like it belonged in this league...but it dropped off quickly and suffers from trying too hard to be like Budapest. Yeah, I like White Innocence a lot, but it practically begs to be compared to its progenitor, and it just isn't quite as good.
|
|
|
Post by Jack -A- Lynn on Sept 25, 2020 8:17:20 GMT
I knew Budapest before The whaler's dues. From the first time i heard it i loved it very much, so i am emotionally attached to this. One of my all time favourites. But Whaler's dues is wonderful too. I put it together in the same level musically, both of them are music magic. Mind traveling..i suppose you are interesting most for opinions upon music but i can't describe very well the music part. i' m sure you know what i would say if i could. As for the lyrics and consepts,i really love sea stories. Budapest's lyrics although are misunderstood, speaks to me cause one day when i was a waitress at a concert i had a similar experience with a musician ❤️...but it never happened anything between us. Ahh you made it difficult again , it is so hard between tull songs! i know you do this not necessarily to choose one of them but mostly for analyzing them. You're absolutely right: I'm more interested in having good discussion about the songs than I am in declaring a winner between them. I like hearing what other people have to say about Tull's music--including their descriptions of how it makes them feel. I can tell how special Budapest is to you, and I think it's really awesome that it resonates with you like that! l like the same and love interpretations of the songs. For the whaler's dues, i do not indentify directly but in a way that leads to deeper meanings. As in many songs. Many times i indentify too with songs that are not related with my experiences but it happens. Maybe it is empathy. For example in the baker street muse song (all the song of course but especially) the part : I have no time for Time Magazine or Rolling Stone. I have no wish for wishing-wells or wishing bones. I have no house in the country I have no motor-car. And if you think I'm joking, then I'm just a one-line joker in a public Bar. And it seems there's no-body left for tennis; and I'm a one-band-man. And I want no Top Twenty funeral or a hundred grand. It is moving i think, if i use the correct word to discribe the feeling. And i don' t even understand very clear the meanings generally because of the language.
|
|
|
Post by acreman on Sept 25, 2020 10:53:35 GMT
For the whaler's dues, i do not indentify directly but in a way that leads to deeper meanings. As in many songs. Many times i indentify too with songs that are not related with my experiences but it happens. Maybe it is empathy. For example in the baker street muse song (all the song of course but especially) the part : I have no time for Time Magazine or Rolling Stone. I have no wish for wishing-wells or wishing bones. I have no house in the country I have no motor-car. And if you think I'm joking, then I'm just a one-line joker in a public Bar. And it seems there's no-body left for tennis; and I'm a one-band-man. And I want no Top Twenty funeral or a hundred grand. It is moving i think, if i use the correct word to discribe the feeling. And i don' t even understand very clear the meanings generally because of the language. Ian is such a master of creating atmosphere with his music, and with songs like Baker St., it's amazing how many different moods he can successfully transition between. With You There to Help Me and many other tracks were taking me on atmospheric journeys before I even had any idea what the lyrics were about. It's kind of a bonus that Ian is a fantastic lyricist and often gives us interesting stories to consider, like with Whaler's Dues.
|
|
|
Post by Jack -A- Lynn on Sept 25, 2020 17:48:55 GMT
For the whaler's dues, i do not indentify directly but in a way that leads to deeper meanings. As in many songs. Many times i indentify too with songs that are not related with my experiences but it happens. Maybe it is empathy. For example in the baker street muse song (all the song of course but especially) the part : I have no time for Time Magazine or Rolling Stone. I have no wish for wishing-wells or wishing bones. I have no house in the country I have no motor-car. And if you think I'm joking, then I'm just a one-line joker in a public Bar. And it seems there's no-body left for tennis; and I'm a one-band-man. And I want no Top Twenty funeral or a hundred grand. It is moving i think, if i use the correct word to discribe the feeling. And i don' t even understand very clear the meanings generally because of the language. Ian is such a master of creating atmosphere with his music, and with songs like Baker St., it's amazing how many different moods he can successfully transition between. With You There to Help Me and many other tracks were taking me on atmospheric journeys before I even had any idea what the lyrics were about. It's kind of a bonus that Ian is a fantastic lyricist and often gives us interesting stories to consider, like with Whaler's Dues. Exactly as you say! By the way, i have noticed we like many of the same tull songs
|
|
|
Post by nonrabbit on Sept 25, 2020 20:13:58 GMT
Budapest - for me no contest. It tells a better story both in music and lyric.
|
|
|
Post by acreman on Sept 25, 2020 21:33:57 GMT
Ian is such a master of creating atmosphere with his music, and with songs like Baker St., it's amazing how many different moods he can successfully transition between. With You There to Help Me and many other tracks were taking me on atmospheric journeys before I even had any idea what the lyrics were about. It's kind of a bonus that Ian is a fantastic lyricist and often gives us interesting stories to consider, like with Whaler's Dues. Exactly as you say! By the way, i have noticed we like many of the same tull songs We have great taste in Tull tracks!
|
|
|
Post by steelmonkey on Sept 26, 2020 0:54:21 GMT
When you talk about songs of this high level, all so great, the tipping points are probably personal. Where you were and who you were when they were new....or maybe live versions...or maybe the one you most recently heard when you really needed it.
|
|
Essan
Master Craftsman
Posts: 293
|
Post by Essan on Sept 28, 2020 9:40:07 GMT
Neither! It's Mountain Men for me
|
|
|
Post by acreman on Sept 28, 2020 11:02:57 GMT
Neither! It's Mountain Men for me That's another good song. I was listening to it just yesterday, in fact. I like pretty much everything on Crest of a Knave except for maybe the lengthy Waking Edge opening (on the CD).
|
|
stevep
Master Craftsman
Posts: 430
|
Post by stevep on Sept 28, 2020 13:41:06 GMT
Agree with you on Mountain Men Essan. Not sure why but Budapest has never been one of my favourites. It always seems to go down a storm in concerts I have seen overseas though (Italians seem to like it especially). I remember Ian Anderson saying in concert that the Budapest lyrics had got him and Martin Barre in trouble with their wives.
|
|
|
Post by Jack -A- Lynn on Sept 28, 2020 18:09:05 GMT
Agree with you on Mountain Men Essan. Not sure why but Budapest has never been one of my favourites. It always seems to go down a storm in concerts I have seen overseas though (Italians seem to like it especially). I remember Ian Anderson saying in concert that the Budapest lyrics had got him and Martin Barre in trouble with their wives. Hahahaha in troubles with their wives! What a song! Mountains, hills, forests, trees, sands and seas... And the clouds and the sun and the rivers and the rains and the fields.... Ian has praised all nature through his songs <3 And so many things. I love too Mountain men but i don't think Budapest is overrated. I don' t say you say that, just wanted to say this. Objectively, it is worth being in the position it is.
|
|
|
Post by acreman on Sept 29, 2020 11:25:31 GMT
Mountains, hills, forests, trees, sands and seas... And the clouds and the sun and the rivers and the rains and the fields.... Ian has praised all nature through his songs <3 And so many things. I like how he populates those environments with creatures ranging from angry whales to vigilant mouse police. All the references to our fauna friends (on the Heavy Horses album in particular) are very endearing.
|
|
|
Post by Jack -A- Lynn on Sept 29, 2020 13:23:13 GMT
Mountains, hills, forests, trees, sands and seas... And the clouds and the sun and the rivers and the rains and the fields.... Ian has praised all nature through his songs <3 And so many things. I like how he populates those environments with creatures ranging from angry whales to vigilant mouse police. All the references to our fauna friends (on the Heavy Horses album in particular) are very endearing. Yes. I like too the animal references. (It would be nice if we open a topic in which we can gather all of them, if there is not already) Almost always tull songs have more than one meanings or as many as we want and we can "see" . I love too that many times he uses animals to describe actualy man 😁 Reminds me Aesop and his tales i was reading when i was child in which the characters are animals who acting like humans. Parable tales. Love so much Songs from the wood, Heavy Horses, Stormwatch!
|
|
|
Post by acreman on Sept 29, 2020 16:06:07 GMT
Almost always tull songs have more than one meanings or as many as we want and we can "see" . I love too that many times he uses animals to describe actualy man 😁 Reminds me Aesop and his tales i was reading when i was child in witch the characters are animals who acting like humans. Parable tales. Love so much Songs from the wood, Heavy Horses, Stormwatch! Ian has been so creative over the years in coming up with ways to comment on society and his place in it. And he often shares his thoughts with interesting, well-written lyrics. Minstrel in the Gallery's title track is one of my favorites in both regards. And the period of Songs from the Wood, Heavy Horses, and Stormwatch was so wonderful for the band. They seemed right at home with that style of rock. And since those albums explored the sorts of themes and environments I often enjoy in literature, I feel right at home with them as well!
|
|
|
Post by tullabye on Sept 30, 2020 0:35:13 GMT
I was going to reply the same way about Mountain Men the other day but got sidetracked. Absolutely love ( always have) Mountain Men. Some of the tastiest licks ever from Martin and the feel of the song and lyrics showcases the greatness of Ian and the band. I like it better than either Budapest or Whaler’s dues but of course those are classic Tull as well. All three represent tunes that no other band could begin to replicate. Ps...love the beginning of Waking Edge.
|
|
|
Post by maddogfagin on Sept 30, 2020 12:58:39 GMT
Acres Wild does it for me, as does Life Is A Long Song - both classic Tull imo
|
|
|
Post by Jack -A- Lynn on Sept 30, 2020 13:37:25 GMT
Almost always tull songs have more than one meanings or as many as we want and we can "see" . I love too that many times he uses animals to describe actualy man 😁 Reminds me Aesop and his tales i was reading when i was child in witch the characters are animals who acting like humans. Parable tales. Love so much Songs from the wood, Heavy Horses, Stormwatch! Ian has been so creative over the years in coming up with ways to comment on society and his place in it. And he often shares his thoughts with interesting, well-written lyrics. Minstrel in the Gallery's title track is one of my favorites in both regards. And the period of Songs from the Wood, Heavy Horses, and Stormwatch was so wonderful for the band. They seemed right at home with that style of rock. And since those albums explored the sorts of themes and environments I often enjoy in literature, I feel right at home with them as well! There is nothing to disagree with you. And - what a surprise 😁 - Minstrel in the gallery is very favourite for me! And the whole album is great! I ' m listening to it all the time lately. Tull's music helps me so much pass through difficult times, helps me be optimistic and happy. These days, in my neighborhood i noticed at a new building that the builder has inscribed ducks in the concrete walls 😁 ducks with open wings, ducks in various ways. And my mind,when i saw it, went you know where! Hahaha I will take a photo of it! I 'm glad we're talking. I hope do not stray too much from the topic onto other things. I have a tendency do this. The one leads to another.
|
|
|
Post by acreman on Sept 30, 2020 16:01:52 GMT
And - what a surprise 😁 - Minstrel in the gallery is very favourite for me! And the whole album is great! I ' m listening to it all the time lately. Tull's music helps me so much pass through difficult times, helps me be optimistic and happy. These days, in my neighborhood i noticed at a new building that the builder has inscribed ducks in the concrete walls 😁 ducks with open wings, ducks in various ways. And my mind,when i saw it, went you know where! Hahaha I will take a photo of it! I 'm glad we're talking. I hope do not stray too much from the topic onto other things. I have a tendency do this. The one leads to another. Ian put a lot of extremely personal material on the Minstrel album, like Requiem and of course One White Duck, but he included some good bits of fun as well, so it can be very poignant and then also bring a smile to someone's face. Speaking of fun, those "ducks on a wall" really sound like they add some to the environment! And all of these topics seem relevant and fun to discuss.
|
|
|
Post by acreman on Sept 30, 2020 16:02:43 GMT
Acres Wild does it for me, as does Life Is A Long Song - both classic Tull imo Acres Wild is my second-favorite Tull tune. The music and lyrics complement each other so well and create such vivid imagery.
|
|
|
Post by Jack -A- Lynn on Oct 1, 2020 11:44:42 GMT
And - what a surprise 😁 - Minstrel in the gallery is very favourite for me! And the whole album is great! I ' m listening to it all the time lately. Tull's music helps me so much pass through difficult times, helps me be optimistic and happy. These days, in my neighborhood i noticed at a new building that the builder has inscribed ducks in the concrete walls 😁 ducks with open wings, ducks in various ways. And my mind,when i saw it, went you know where! Hahaha I will take a photo of it! I 'm glad we're talking. I hope do not stray too much from the topic onto other things. I have a tendency do this. The one leads to another. Ian put a lot of extremely personal material on the Minstrel album, like Requiem and of course One White Duck, but he included some good bits of fun as well, so it can be very poignant and then also bring a smile to someone's face. Speaking of fun, those "ducks on a wall" really sound like they add some to the environment! And all of these topics seem relevant and fun to discuss. I know it has to do with his divorce. Bittersweet emotions. As for those ducks, my imagination started working, making me felt i was expecting that in a little while another tull sign would appear near me which would lead me to a tull fan maybe? So, surely, Acreman that Acres Wild is your song, as you said once again
|
|
|
Post by acreman on Oct 2, 2020 3:21:14 GMT
I know it has to do with his divorce. Bittersweet emotions. As for those ducks, my imagination started working, making me felt i was expecting that in a little while another tull sign would appear near me which would lead me to a tull fan maybe? So, surely, Acreman that Acres Wild is your song, as you said once again Bittersweet, and such beautiful songs. I think Ian's willingness to be so bold and honest with his lyrics (and even vulnerable, like with those Minstrel songs) helps make them so special and relatable for people. And while we can associate certain songs with particular events in our lives, little happenings here and there can turn it around and remind us of the music we love--like those ducks on the building wall. And you definitely identified the "acres" connection I created there with one of the songs special to me!
|
|
|
Post by 61jtull on Oct 2, 2020 17:12:50 GMT
For me, Budapest is clearly the best Jethro Tull songs of the 1980's, and one of the best songs period. Whaler's due is a very fine song, but I'm not convinced that its even the best song on Rock Island. When I think of "Epic" I don't necessarily think of long songs, but songs that has different elements or components. Perhaps my favorite Tull song ever is Baker Street Muse.......now that was Epic!
|
|
|
Post by acreman on Oct 3, 2020 3:04:37 GMT
For me, Budapest is clearly the best Jethro Tull songs of the 1980's, and one of the best songs period. Whaler's due is a very fine song, but I'm not convinced that its even the best song on Rock Island. When I think of "Epic" I don't necessarily think of long songs, but songs that has different elements or components. Perhaps my favorite Tull song ever is Baker Street Muse.......now that was Epic! Budapest was a great achievement. In the context of Tull's '80s work, there are a few songs I like even more, like Clasp and Fylingdale Flyer. But Budapest is a masterpiece and a very strong pick for their best track of the decade. The Whaler's Dues, though it's fantastic, might not be my favorite song on Rock Island either. But it does make the top two, along with Heavy Water. And Baker St. certainly is epic! I was listening to it the other day and enjoying it more than ever.
|
|
|
Post by steelmonkey on Oct 5, 2020 6:31:56 GMT
This is an epic thread.
|
|
|
Post by orion12 on Oct 21, 2020 4:23:08 GMT
I prefer Rock Island(song) to both Budapest & The Whaler's Dues actually. Such a magical song, wonderful flute, very atmospheric. And the song is epic as well, nearly seven minutes long.
|
|