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Post by nonrabbit on Apr 20, 2014 5:48:05 GMT
Unpeeling the layers both musically and lyrically although maybe best if an explanation of some of the historical references and unusual Brit words are put in Equus's HE song thread - thanks Equus. Thanks to Futureshock for suggestiong this thread - I'll do the admin HE has been an APP for me... not as bad as a MITG where with a teenage strop and a youthful disdain I threw it away at the first one and a half listens, with APP it was more "I wish I could appreciate it better" attitude. I think we're all agreed that there are different approaches to Anderson's music and some take a while others are instant. I have acquired more patience now and inclination to cut through the negativity that I first had about this album and devote time to understand what he's getting at and what he's produced here. It's not a revelation more a few more listens and a few more readings. With HE I have concentrated on the story and the lyrics and left the music to listen too after I've, hopefully, grasped the words and meanings.
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Post by nonrabbit on Apr 20, 2014 6:06:16 GMT
He has helpfully put dates to the various events.
The Anderson trademark (if you like) of religion,rustic-life and engineering are all obvious although I think Meliora Sequamur is out of place or at least this version of how education spread in the 12th century could have been better. This song sounds like a left-over from TAAB2 due to the reference to bullying - a bit tiresome and maybe a bit revealing?
The underlying political layers are a great weave of relevance from Ice Age to present and future.
Another thought too occurred as to why he uses the characters of Bostock and Parritt. Is it that they allow him to put his ideas and opinions over without it sounding preachy or pretentious? Also stating that both Bostock and Parritt are old eccentrics gives him an excuse to occasionally ramble and allows for some disjointing in the story-line?
Clever.
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Post by nonrabbit on Apr 20, 2014 18:58:32 GMT
Can't help but wonder and not just on the rambling aspect of HE, if the influence of John Muir the Scottish/American naturalist, author, roamer and pioneer of nature and it's effect on Man and the environment played a small part in the story. His many causes and interests echo some of the sentiments in the album. His biographer, Donald Worster, has said that one of Muir's missions "was to achieve the archetype of oneness with the earth" and also "save the American soul from total surrender to materialism" Remembering too that Ian sold Strathaird to the John Muir Trust. www.jmt.org/
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Post by steelmonkey on Apr 21, 2014 0:31:58 GMT
Good points all...and Meliora erally does belong more with 'Old School Song' on TAAB2 or in TAAB than on Homo.
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Post by nonrabbit on Apr 21, 2014 8:14:22 GMT
I think the Doggerland kind of fell into his lap when he was approaching this story - wonder how big a part in played in the idea? Did it form the whole story? A piece of land that no longer exists due to tidal surges around the coast of Britain on the European side is a great way to start the Wandering Man's quest, physically, politically, environmentally-concious and social. "..re-colonisation by animals and humans. Neolithic man. Beaker people. The re-connection with Europe." There's not much reference to mysticism in the album except in Puer Ferox Adventus however interesting to read about Ley lines and ancient connections across the path that led to Doggerland - and beyond(?) Ley lines.. are supposed alignments of numerous places of geographical and historical interest, such as ancient monuments and megaliths, natural ridge-tops and water-fords. The phrase was coined in 1921 by the amateur archaeologist Alfred Watkins, in his books Early British Trackways and The Old Straight Track. He sought to identify ancient trackways in the British landscape. Watkins later developed theories that these alignments were created for ease of overland trekking by line-of-sight navigation during Neolithic times, and had persisted in the landscape over millennia.[1] Wiki
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Post by maddogfagin on Apr 21, 2014 9:38:16 GMT
The references to IA's school days are well documented in his songs and to be honest I've never fathomed out completely what his thoughts are about the British education system. He went to school at around the same time as I did and even in the modest scholastic places I was in, tradition mattered with teachers in mortar boards, school assembly with hymns and uniforms which hadn't really changed since the years dot. I mean for f***s sake, I still had to wear short grey trousers when I was ten years old at school (back in 1958), try telling that to the yoof of today - they wouldn't believe you.
And I've no doubt it's the same the world over.
Three "takes" on the British public school system, all three of which are fantasy, highly stylised and, in the case of Tomkinson's Schooldays, bloody funny but worth viewing if you have a few hours to spare.
Goodbye Mr. Chips (1939) starring Robert Donat
If (1968) starring Malcolm McDowell
Tomkinson's Schooldays (1976) starring Michael Palin
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Post by nonrabbit on Apr 22, 2014 10:58:52 GMT
I'm confused about bits in some of the songs as to their meaning and relevance.
Heavy Metals
"Every atom of the arsenal forged in distant dying sun in unholy Trinity now lends new form to plough and gun."
Puer Ferox Adventus
"Meet in Milan and host the party"
After These Wars
"We take our place amongst those others who would punch above their weight."
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Post by nonrabbit on Apr 22, 2014 11:09:16 GMT
What's the relevance of In For A Pound any ideas? All I can think is that maybe it's a subtle nod toward prog, England going down the swanny and this; i59.images obliterated by tinypic/2wduljm.jpg[/IMG] (unless I'm Mad
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Post by maddogfagin on Apr 22, 2014 11:57:29 GMT
I'm confused about bits in some of the songs as to their meaning and relevance. Heavy Metals"Every atom of the arsenal forged in distant dying sun in unholy Trinity now lends new form to plough and gun." Reckon this refers to the fact that the atoms which make up all living things on the Earth together with all the elements we have at our disposal originally formed part or parts of the "Big Bang" which created the Universe. Was there a peace treaty at one time held in Milan ? Something similar to: Milan, Peace Treaty of (1849) signed on August 6 in Milan by representatives of Austria and the Kingdom of Sardinia (Piedmont). It brought to a conclusion the Austro-Italian War of 1848-49 encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Milan,+Peace+Treaty+of+1849 Quite possibly a reference to the forming of NATO with smaller countries given the same voting rights, depending on size, as the larger world powers.
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Post by nonrabbit on Apr 22, 2014 13:06:33 GMT
Heavy Metals"Every atom of the arsenal forged in distant dying sun in unholy Trinity now lends new form to plough and gun." Reckon this refers to the fact that the atoms which make up all living things on the Earth together with all the elements we have at our disposal originally formed part or parts of the "Big Bang" which created the Universe. Many thanks. What do you reckon the Holy Trinity part means?
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Post by maddogfagin on Apr 22, 2014 13:24:55 GMT
Heavy Metals"Every atom of the arsenal forged in distant dying sun in unholy Trinity now lends new form to plough and gun." Reckon this refers to the fact that the atoms which make up all living things on the Earth together with all the elements we have at our disposal originally formed part or parts of the "Big Bang" which created the Universe. Many thanks. What do you reckon the Holy Trinity part means? Unholy Trinity could be a reference to Satan, Antichrist and the False Prophet and the possible Armageddon. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unholy_Trinityen.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmageddonPuts on his Private Frazer voice "We're all doomed"
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Post by earsoftin on Apr 22, 2014 13:55:32 GMT
Puer Ferox
Milan is a reference to the Edict of Milan of 313, by which Christianity was tolerated within the Roman Empire, paving the way for its subsequent establishment as the official religion of the Empire and so of Roman Catholicism. This has two connections to earlier work. One is that Ian has always expressed scepticism about the claims of organized religion. Famously he picked on the poor old Church of England with its ‘chains of history’ but his target was a little wider. In the recorded version of My God he sings scathingly of
And the graven image you-know-who with His plastic crucifix he's got him fixed confuses me as to who and where and why as to how he gets his kicks. Confessing to the endless sin the endless whining sounds.
In earlier live versions Roman Catholic clearly replaces the ‘you know who’ and Ian in a 2003 interview notes ‘"My God" definitely takes a little poke at Christianity, specifically at Catholicism. But that’s just part of growing up in that sort of environment in a very strict school system, you know.’ The religion foisted on him in his school would be Anglicanism and his response to that is in Wind Up. The later parts of Puer can be seen as a return to the original impulses of Christianity before it became distorted by later organizational forms. Of course, in more recent years Ian’s stance on this has softened, but the tension between a broad spiritualism and its organized form can be seen in this song. The second connection is the references to the ways in which the newly approved religion co-opted existing forms of celebration or blotted them out, ceremonies such as the solstice celebrations or the New Year. Of course, Songs from the Wood era songs such as Beltane mark a fascination with the survival of these rites and their connection with a broader spirituality, one with perhaps more sensitivity to the natural world.
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Post by bunkerfan on Apr 22, 2014 14:25:42 GMT
Puer Ferox Milan is a reference to the Edict of Milan of 313, by which Christianity was tolerated within the Roman Empire, paving the way for its subsequent establishment as the official religion of the Empire and so of Roman Catholicism. This has two connections to earlier work. One is that Ian has always expressed scepticism about the claims of organized religion. Famously he picked on the poor old Church of England with its ‘chains of history’ but his target was a little wider. In the recorded version of My God he sings scathingly of And the graven image you-know-who with His plastic crucifix he's got him fixed confuses me as to who and where and why as to how he gets his kicks. Confessing to the endless sin the endless whining sounds. In earlier live versions Roman Catholic clearly replaces the ‘you know who’ and Ian in a 2003 interview notes ‘"My God" definitely takes a little poke at Christianity, specifically at Catholicism. But that’s just part of growing up in that sort of environment in a very strict school system, you know.’ The religion foisted on him in his school would be Anglicanism and his response to that is in Wind Up. The later parts of Puer can be seen as a return to the original impulses of Christianity before it became distorted by later organizational forms. Of course, in more recent years Ian’s stance on this has softened, but the tension between a broad spiritualism and its organized form can be seen in this song. The second connection is the references to the ways in which the newly approved religion co-opted existing forms of celebration or blotted them out, ceremonies such as the solstice celebrations or the New Year. Of course, Songs from the Wood era songs such as Beltane mark a fascination with the survival of these rites and their connection with a broader spirituality, one with perhaps more sensitivity to the natural world. The very mention of "Beltane" has a chap getting too excited for his own good. Beltane Fire Festival is an annual participatory arts event and ritual drama, held on 30 April on Calton Hill in Edinburgh. The modern Beltane Fire Festival is inspired by the ancient Gaelic festival of Beltane which began on the evening before 1 May and marked the beginning of summer.The modern festival was started in 1988 by a small group of enthusiasts including the musical collective Test Dept, with academic support from the School of Scottish Studies at the University of Edinburgh. Since then the festival has grown, and now involves over 300 voluntary collaborators and performers with available tickets often selling out. While the festival draws on a variety of historical, mythological and literary influences, the organisers do not claim it to be anything other than a modern celebration of Beltane, evolving with its participants. Here's the least rude photo I found of the event.
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Post by steelmonkey on Apr 22, 2014 15:16:33 GMT
Might the unholy trinity be as simple at the molecular building blocks: proton, neutron, electron ?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2014 15:39:42 GMT
Cool thread - Canadian idea all the better. Not too complex, usually a lyric freak, my favourite track this time is Tripudium Ad Bellum. World Wars caught in a perfect musical interpretation. Ian Anderson calls it "Jethro does Jazz".
Nothing moves me here as much as "Wootton Bassett Town" and nothing pleases me as much as "Kismet in Suburbia".
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Post by nonrabbit on Apr 22, 2014 16:39:15 GMT
Puer Ferox Milan is a reference to the Edict of Milan of 313, by which Christianity was tolerated within the Roman Empire, paving the way for its subsequent establishment as the official religion of the Empire and so of Roman Catholicism. This has two connections to earlier work. One is that Ian has always expressed scepticism about the claims of organized religion. Famously he picked on the poor old Church of England with its ‘chains of history’ but his target was a little wider. In the recorded version of My God he sings scathingly of And the graven image you-know-who with His plastic crucifix he's got him fixed confuses me as to who and where and why as to how he gets his kicks. Confessing to the endless sin the endless whining sounds. In earlier live versions Roman Catholic clearly replaces the ‘you know who’ and Ian in a 2003 interview notes ‘"My God" definitely takes a little poke at Christianity, specifically at Catholicism. But that’s just part of growing up in that sort of environment in a very strict school system, you know.’ The religion foisted on him in his school would be Anglicanism and his response to that is in Wind Up. The later parts of Puer can be seen as a return to the original impulses of Christianity before it became distorted by later organizational forms. Of course, in more recent years Ian’s stance on this has softened, but the tension between a broad spiritualism and its organized form can be seen in this song. The second connection is the references to the ways in which the newly approved religion co-opted existing forms of celebration or blotted them out, ceremonies such as the solstice celebrations or the New Year. Of course, Songs from the Wood era songs such as Beltane mark a fascination with the survival of these rites and their connection with a broader spirituality, one with perhaps more sensitivity to the natural world. There is a lot of religious reference in HE and particularly Catholicism. The reference that sticks out for me and it may not necessarily be one and just something I'm surmising is in After These Wars,incidentally one of my favourite examples of descriptive words in the whole album; "I see a screen,grey cathode tube in walnut cabinet, pride of place in holy family living room." The image I see is my Catholic grannies living room in the 1960's with said walnut cabinet TV ( obligatory lace doily on top) and a huge picture of the Holy Family above the fireplace. I wonder if he also has that same image from somewhere in is past?
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Post by nonrabbit on Apr 22, 2014 16:45:36 GMT
...... a fascination with the survival of these rites and their connection with a broader spirituality, one with perhaps more sensitivity to the natural world. Really good point.
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Post by stevep on Apr 22, 2014 17:16:40 GMT
I have only been able to get a downloaded version of HE and have not seen any lyrics. There are numerous references to gun manufacturers in Heavy Metals so I assumed it was about a hobby of IA's.. Collecting guns. That Beltane festival certainly looks more fun than going to work. Should try and attend just to celebrate a rather good Tull song... Just found the lyrics for the album here for those folk that do not have them www.lyricsmania.com/ian_anderson_lyrics.html
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Post by steelmonkey on Apr 22, 2014 18:21:39 GMT
The holy living room might be an acknowledgement that the idiot tube took the place of the church for many families.
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Post by nonrabbit on Apr 23, 2014 6:42:30 GMT
The holy living room might be an acknowledgement that the idiot tube took the place of the church for many families. Think you might be right. Think I was listening to the song backwards
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Post by nonrabbit on Apr 23, 2014 6:57:03 GMT
Might be of help to post snippets of recent interviews where he has provided an explanation of the album. kmuw.org/post/ian-anderson-s-homo-erraticus-examines-migration-big-ideas?nopop=1“This is a story of migration. This is a story that salutatory fact that we all ought to remember, that we’re all from somewhere else,” the veteran musician says. “It’s not just about the physicality of human migration, it’s also about the aesthetic, it’s also about the migration of ideas, the migration of commerce and trade, the migration of culture, of arts and entertainment. And allude to these things because it’s kind of important to remember that we Brits—and you Americans—are not terribly good at putting men with boots and guns on the ground and invading other countries. We don’t have a great track record, as of late especially.” “But what we are brilliant at doing,” he continues, “and where we are world beaters, is taking over other countries with our arts and entertainment.” Anderson adds that he doesn’t want to point fingers with the record or make accusations of ethnocentrism. Instead, he’d like the listener to think about how cultural exchanges have come to forge new elements of civilization. “I’m trying to talk about some of the good stuff," he says. "I’m not just talking about invaders plundering and taking what they want. Generally speaking, most folks who’ve gone in—maybe they’ve had to stamp on a few heads along the way—but generally tend, on balance, to leave something quite positive behind as the result of their endeavours.” One thing that hasn’t changed in the years since Jethro Tull debuted is that Anderson continues to fill his music with a wry sense of humour. Through the decades Anderson has skewered organized religion, British culture, and even the world of rock ‘n’ roll itself. Although it’s been part of everything he’s done, he says that he’s cautious about not letting the comedy overtake the music. “It’s a way of sometimes presenting difficult stuff. ‘Big ideas.’ And, sometimes, more worrying ideas," he says. "But if you deliver them with a bit of smile on your face, then people are more open to it, then you can seduce people, perhaps, by giving it that veneer of, not comedic value, but sort of lightness that makes it more accessible and people are more likely to be drawn to it.” Anderson adds that he learned to walk that fine line in part by learning from his peers. “Frank Zappa was a case in point," he says. "Very, very fine musician, great lyricist, great songwriter, great performer. But we never got past the humour with Frank. Except in his instrumental-only pieces. Lyrically speaking he always felt compelled to make a joke of everything. Some of it was very funny, very cutting, very poignant, very observational. But we didn’t ever get to see Frank cry or kind of laugh at himself, or be someone who was obviously capable of the emotions that most of us feel. He seemed to almost use humour as a defence mechanism so that we couldn’t really see the soft, vulnerable centre of that great musician. So, I’m sort of on guard not to do that myself, I wouldn’t want humour to overwhelm what I do.” Fans of Jethro Tull or Anderson’s earlier solo work will note one or two musical influences that have crept into his compositions in recent years, right beside elements of classic Tull sounds."
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Post by nonrabbit on Apr 23, 2014 15:06:54 GMT
Might be an even better help if I read the explanations accompanying each song - with dates!!
One jumped to the lyrics and songs with too much haste.
The album is more clever and less erratic (sorry) in timescale than I first gave it credit eg he could have used the 1950's/60's and the advent of the motorway as an example for "superhighway: you pays your way" but it's a much better,romantically and visually using the Highwayman scenario.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2014 15:10:11 GMT
The songs are explained well enough on DVD, though short. They appear on screen as each song is played. I would have like to see the lyrics too. The Wild Child (Jesus story) is noted.
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Post by Equus on Apr 23, 2014 15:15:14 GMT
The songs are explained well enough on DVD. They appear on screen as each song is played. I would have like to see the lyrics too. The Wild Child (Jesus story) is noted. I was thinking the same thing, and I was a little disappointed... On the DVD for Thick As A Brick 2, the lyrics are clear to see when each song is played... I liked that, but not this time... Hmm... Oh... this is my post 313... That kind of calls for Donald Duck...
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Post by nonrabbit on Apr 23, 2014 15:15:10 GMT
The songs are explained well enough on DVD. They appear on screen as each song is played. I would have like to see the lyrics too. I think maybe we're all approaching this from different angles - a few nights ago I had the booklet as a form of homework plus notepad:) Well poor me can't afford a decent music system nor may not be seeing any concerts unless they're coming to a Community Hall near me. (I've got to amuse myself some way!!)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2014 16:04:25 GMT
The songs are explained well enough on DVD. They appear on screen as each song is played. I would have like to see the lyrics too. The Wild Child (Jesus story) is noted. I was thinking the same thing, and I was a little disappointed... On the DVD for Thick As A Brick 2, the lyrics are clear to see when each song is played... I liked that, but not this time... Hmm... Oh... this is my post 313... That kind of calls for Donald Duck... Congratulations - a great number - on to greater numbers! D-UCK! Break on through to the other side of 313.
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Post by Equus on Apr 23, 2014 18:03:26 GMT
I was thinking the same thing, and I was a little disappointed... On the DVD for Thick As A Brick 2, the lyrics are clear to see when each song is played... I liked that, but not this time... Hmm... Oh... this is my post 313... That kind of calls for Donald Duck... Congratulations - a great number - on to greater numbers! D-UCK! Break on through to the other side of 313. Ups... lol... ROFL... 314...
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Post by nonrabbit on Apr 23, 2014 18:33:52 GMT
In fact there's nothing complicated about the album at all - the theme is hats and long black coats! i60.images obliterated by tinypic/mjy3cj.jpg[/IMG] Highwayman from the Turnpike Inn Did Prince Albert own a long black coat and a big hat?
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Post by maddogfagin on Apr 24, 2014 9:38:21 GMT
In fact there's nothing complicated about the album at all - the theme is hats and long black coats! Highwayman from the Turnpike Inn Did Prince Albert own a long black coat and a big hat? I'll suggest it to Tom on the merchandise stall when I see him - Ian Anderson long black leather coats with the tour dates on the back Oh by the way I told a untruth when I said in a recent post I was off for a cup of tea and a digestive - they were hobnobs, choccy ones of course.
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Post by maddogfagin on Apr 24, 2014 9:47:19 GMT
"..... and penicillin raised the dead"The discovery of penicillin is attributed to Scottish scientist and Nobel laureate Alexander Fleming in 1928. Sir Alexander Fleming, FRSE, FRS, FRCS(Eng) (6 August 1881 – 11 March 1955) was a Scottish biologist, pharmacologist and botanist. He wrote many articles on bacteriology, immunology, and chemotherapy. His best-known discoveries are the enzyme lysozyme in 1923 and the antibiotic substance penicillin from the mould Penicillium notatum in 1928, for which he shared the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine in 1945 with Howard Florey and Ernst Boris Chain. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Fleming
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