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Post by bluehare on Sept 10, 2008 18:47:39 GMT
Good morning, all. I would like to start out by saying that I am not only new to the forum, but I am a fairly new-ish follower of the band to begin with. I didn't find them til the late 90's. Maybe that already excludes me from having the cache to say what I'm about to say next. But I am going to bluster forward with it anyway. I have been reading these pages bit by bit every day - haven't gotten through everything yet. But there seem to be many posts talking about, and I paraphrase here, what "we" all seem to collectively "know" or "accept" to be true about the band in general, and Ian Anderson in particular....snippets of information that are written as if they are common knowledge (some of this stuff seems, admittedly to me, to border on Ian bashing). I can't tell if some posters actually like him or not based on their comments. And then these comments are followed by other comments similar to, "as we all know"..... Do we? I don't! Am I blind? Am I not privy to some secret repository of Tull knowledge hidden away on the internet somewhere that catalogs all of (mostly) Ian's transgressions? Cuz if there is one, how long do I have to be a fan before I get the magic club key? I do not mean to sound inflammatory, facetious, yes, but not inflammatory. But first of all, I have to set myself aside - and not be included in that group: "we-all-know". Because I obviously don't know what some of you know. I have only been to four concerts so far, but I attend all I can afford. Every experience has been exactly what I expected (from what I had read prior to even the first one)...Ian is bawdy, his vocal cords have been severely injured, he usually has boundless energy on stage, his bandmates are fair game for his jokes, he is a hard taskmaster. All but the last one I have seen...and even Dee Palmer says he's mellowed with age in regard to that...I am able to read everything else on the internet and magazines, aside from the "secret material". Maybe I don't "get" what it means to be a Tull fan, or an IA fan. Maybe criticizing the person and not just the performance is part of being a fan. But it just seems odd to me. My own belief is that I think there is a fine line between criticizing a lackluster performance and getting personal, and slightly insulting. Keeping in mind that what I think is insulting, another person defends as "telling it like it is". What slightly irks me is the conspiratorial tone whereby their position is defended by saying things similar to, "I'm not saying anything new" or the aforementioned "as we all know"....like we all, by default, have to admit on some level that what the person is saying is true. Halfway between being serious and still trying to be light-hearted about the whole thing, I have to say that as a newcomer to both the forum and the band, I find the remarks do bother me. I know. That's my problem. I will deal with it. It's just been a bit jarring to read some of the posts. That's all. But everything I said here I mainly said out of curiosity and good intent. I'm not looking to irritate anyone...a few clarifications, or even a dialogue, would be all that I was going for....
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Post by admin on Sept 10, 2008 20:42:28 GMT
Not really sure where to start with this one bluehare but IMO you sound like a pretty good Tull fan already. There's no secret inner circle of Tull fans here, you're opinion counts just as much as anybody elses. Tull are alot of things to alot of people and the only rules and regulations here is that we can all discuss that as if we were doing it amongst friends.
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Post by bluehare on Sept 10, 2008 22:00:51 GMT
Thanks for the answer, Col. I do appreciate it. I spoke in vague terms because I didn't want to single any particular person out. I wanted my comments to be about the post ings and not about the post er. But that approach could have cost me by making my writing unclear. My comments were not directed to the group as a whole, though. I should be clear about that. On the contrary! I feel most welcome here. I think the people who have responded to me on my first post were quite friendly and open. I enjoy coming here every day, and learning something I didn't know before. It is an interesting and eclectic bunch. So this is really not about people excluding me specifically. I probably expressed that badly. And upon re-reading it, I can see where you would get that idea. There were just some specific, out of the ordinary postings that bothered me a bit. And those few postings - not the norm at all - were the ones that had a "wink wink" tone to them that I thought was a little presumptuous (and also tough on Ian). And the secret inner circle I was talking about....that was my dry sense of humor biting me, I guess! ;D Again, not something I see here - except in those few posts I was referring to - but it is common in other forums where they comment on ways in which the band lies to the fans, and uses them, etc, etc. And I wonder, where do they get this stuff?! In all the reading I've done, I've never run across anything like the stuff they talk about. You don't find these sorts of gossip-y stories in mainstream articles; it's only in the various forums on the net. So, that's why I made the comment about "secret clubs". As far as this forum goes, so far, it is the only one I'm a part of - and that includes non-Tull forums - where you can voice a provocative opinion, and not have everyone implode over it. There may be disagreements, but I haven't come across any disrespect to one another. And that, I really like. So, I hope I fixed up my original post so that it's way more clear than it was before. And thanks, Col, for giving me the benefit of the doubt, and also for your reassurances.
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Post by steelmonkey on Sept 14, 2008 1:30:20 GMT
Ms Bluehare,
I could write pages about celebrity culture, make believe personal knowledge about public figures, narrowimindeed, jealous snipping at the accomplishments of artists etc etc etc...but I won't...how about two brief sentences?
1. Insightful, intelligent post...you're right. 2. Let's give our fellow Tull fans the benefit(!) of the doubt and, beyond the ridiculous personal suff imagining they'know' ian as a person. assume that this forum, like 'New Day' has a respectful quality control, honest feedback aspect as well as gushing fanhood ( i.e. me-I'd pay to watch Ian take out the trash.even if he wasn't hummiong or whistling a tune!). 3. Bonus sentences. I have had numerous, brief, superficial, close-up encounters with party leader. My impression was that he is slightly irritable but patient, deeply concerned about making every Tull concert as good as possible, funny, in a British, 'dry-wit you bettter be on your toes' way and has quite thought through, accepted and figured out how to balance his private person characteristics with the difficult side that high-profile, fame brings. We all know he donates well over the biblical tithe (10%) to charity...(do you...do I...do his critics?)..and gave time, money and more than lip service to numerous causes and agencies even before the money piled up.
This is so the 'short response' to your post...the first draft was turning into a term paper so i stopped and started over!
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Post by admin on Sept 15, 2008 20:32:56 GMT
Thanks for the answer, Col. I do appreciate it. I spoke in vague terms because I didn't want to single any particular person out. I wanted my comments to be about the post ings and not about the post er. But that approach could have cost me by making my writing unclear. My comments were not directed to the group as a whole, though. I should be clear about that. On the contrary! I feel most welcome here. I think the people who have responded to me on my first post were quite friendly and open. I enjoy coming here every day, and learning something I didn't know before. It is an interesting and eclectic bunch. So this is really not about people excluding me specifically. I probably expressed that badly. And upon re-reading it, I can see where you would get that idea. There were just some specific, out of the ordinary postings that bothered me a bit. And those few postings - not the norm at all - were the ones that had a "wink wink" tone to them that I thought was a little presumptuous (and also tough on Ian). And the secret inner circle I was talking about....that was my dry sense of humor biting me, I guess! ;D Again, not something I see here - except in those few posts I was referring to - but it is common in other forums where they comment on ways in which the band lies to the fans, and uses them, etc, etc. And I wonder, where do they get this stuff?! In all the reading I've done, I've never run across anything like the stuff they talk about. You don't find these sorts of gossip-y stories in mainstream articles; it's only in the various forums on the net. So, that's why I made the comment about "secret clubs". As far as this forum goes, so far, it is the only one I'm a part of - and that includes non-Tull forums - where you can voice a provocative opinion, and not have everyone implode over it. There may be disagreements, but I haven't come across any disrespect to one another. And that, I really like. So, I hope I fixed up my original post so that it's way more clear than it was before. And thanks, Col, for giving me the benefit of the doubt, and also for your reassurances. You're welcome bluehare, some of the previous Tull forums were spoilt by some terrible bickering that got really personal so just to emphasise the point one more time the idea behind this forum is to be a little watering hole for everyone with a love of Tull to be able to discuss their likes and dislikes without any of that nonsense. Now have moderators as well as myself to make sure everything stays civil. You are in friendly company! 2. Let's give our fellow Tull fans the benefit(!) of the doubt and, beyond the ridiculous personal suff imagining they'know' ian as a person. assume that this forum, like 'New Day' has a respectful quality control, honest feedback aspect as well as gushing fanhood ( i.e. me-I'd pay to watch Ian take out the trash.even if he wasn't hummiong or whistling a tune!). 'assume that this forum, like 'New Day' has a respectful quality control, honest feedback aspect as well as gushing fanhood' Very well put amigo, that is indeed exactly the idea I had in mind.
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Post by bluehare on Sept 15, 2008 22:27:42 GMT
Thanks, steelmonkey, for the wonderful response. I do like the gushing fanhood. That's quite fun (and I can gush here where it's expected, and not in my house anymore, where people roll their eyes at me...ha)! And I do like all the board members' stories of their years following the band. I guess a very, very few stories worried me because of their tone. But as a newcomer, I was probably being way too sensitive about them. I think this is one of the very few bands I'm a bit nuts about, so maybe a protective instinct just kicked in! The bonus sentences were nice. That's how I perceive him....sort of cranky, but patient. Thanks also for mentioning that you're wordy, and edit your posts. It's nice to know I'm not the only one that can be wordy.... ;D It's such a nice change to be in a place like this, Col. It really is.
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Post by maddogfagin on Sept 16, 2008 7:50:01 GMT
Very interesting thread you started bluehare. Both you and steelmonkey have raised very valid points and I agree with most, if not all, that you say. In my experience I have found that, unlike some followers of other groups, with Tull fans they are more than willing to share their knowledge of the band and to pass on information to others. I have only met a couple of people in 40 years who thought they were the "keeper of the flame"/"inner circle" and whilst they were both dedicated fans did, in my opinion, get far too close to individual members for their own good. However in a forum like this one, whether your 20 or 60 or even older, everyone is treated the same and after all we're all on the same side so to speak.
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Post by nonrabbit on Sept 16, 2008 10:37:44 GMT
.. whether your 20 or 60 or even older, everyone is treated the same and after all we're all on the same side so to speak. And if I may add it makes no difference if you like all of Tull / one Tull song /seen them once or a hundred times or just fancy getting to know about the band ................................ ALL ARE WELCOME!!As Col says just get stuck in I am familiar (obsessively ) with only some of the earlier Tull albums and have loads of 'new' ones to listen too - it's nice to have something to look forward too Also when I went on the Live Tull chat line people would quote lyrics and I wouldn't know whether they were Tull songs or just talking generally eg 'Some bad people living further down the valley...' and I typed 'Oh I'm sorry to hear that' Someone called themselves North Sea Oil and I said 'Oh Hello are you from Aberdeen' ;D and that was before we even got to the trolls impersonating band members etc ;D ;D
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Post by bluehare on Sept 16, 2008 14:11:17 GMT
Hi, maddogfagin, Thanks for your insights, and for helping to clarify some things for me. I am going to break this one paragraph of yours into two: This sort of happened to me once, when a friend of mine wanted to go "band-chasing" after a group she was really into. She had joined a bunch of other people who liked doing the same thing, and they all got some sort of rush out of tracking this band everywhere in attempts to get autographs, pictures - and even closer (ie., groupie situations, or even partying with the band and hoping to become their "friends"). I ran with her once, and felt guilty afterwards. It just had a creepy vibe to it. These people were so obsessed. They didn't act like the band members were people....they were more like trophies. I never did it again. My friend quit when she and another girl got really close to their favorite band member, and the one girl asked for him to take a picture with her. My friend said the guy turned around and looked at them, and his eyes were glazed over - he was exhausted from performing. He had given this same girl lots of pictures in the past. He said he was sorry, but he was hot & sweaty, and just wanted to go to his room and sleep. This girl went bonkers on him, and cussed him out. My friend said the guy's eyes turned hard, he glared at both of them, and then walked away. That was when my friend felt guilty, and never did anything like that again. When I said this in my first post: That was truly meant as a joke. I really don't want to know. The times I've read things - I believe most of the comments were on the Google alt groups thing - a couple years ago - they just upset me. Then I had to tell myself that whatever those people said, first of all, may not have been true. Second of all, even if it was true, the incidents had to pass through their own subjective filters first before they could write anything. Maybe their perceptions were off. Then, I just stopped reading anything over there altogether! Saved myself the headache. Yes, that's the general feeling I get. We are on the same side. But there were one or two posts that didn't sound like that at first, and I should have just let them be, because they do not set the tone for the rest of the messages. It was mainly a knee-jerk reaction after reading negative things on other Tull forums. As I've read further, I have become more at ease. This is now one of my first stops in the morning. Hi, nonrabbit - This made me laugh! I have done things similar to this....beginner mistakes, I guess.... ;D Ack! Can't even imagine what "fun" that must have been..... I'm like you, nonrabbit, in that I have tons of Tull songs I know, and tons I have barely even begun to listen to. And some songs I used to hate, I now like. Plus, in the little amount of time I've been here, I've found out things I never knew after reading a LOT on the net in the last few years (possibly in the wrong places...). For instance, I think it was maddogfagin who posted that thread about Martin's early days (I have to go respond to that thread, btw...). I'd always wondered where Martin had started. That was a great read.....
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Post by TullSkull on Sept 16, 2008 23:36:14 GMT
'Some bad people living further down the valley...' and that was before we even got to the trolls impersonating band members etc ;D ;D In the long red..... red valley.... we only sing the valley song....
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Post by admin on Sept 18, 2008 8:52:13 GMT
bluehare,
I know what you mean when you talk about the nutty fans thing. I never could understand the type of people who think that they are owed something by IA and the band for their loyalty. I've never been keen on the word 'fan' and loathe all that I've been to X many shows and met such and such a member so many times so my opinion is more valid than yours stuff. Fortunately, as maddog mentioned, on the whole we seem to be a pretty amiable bunch and, as is usually the way, it was only a few unpleasant characters that spoiled the previous groups. At the risk of repeating myself, that wont be allowed to happen here!
I remember reading an Interview with IA somewhere and he said something along the lines of it's very nice that some folks are so dedicated to the band and go to so many gigs etc etc but to him the most important person in the crowd is the one whose never been to a Tull show before. That's a sentiment I very much agree with here on this forum, in fact if there's anyone here who's recently got into Tull then I'm quite jealous of them having the pleasure of discovering all this great music for the first time!
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Post by bluehare on Sept 18, 2008 13:18:35 GMT
That's one thing I've noticed at the Tull shows I've gone to, Col...the pool of older teenagers to mid-20-somethings is amazing, and they're not with parents. In fact, the last concert at the Greek, there were two college age men sitting behind me, and one was telling the other one all sorts of tidbits about the band during the show. Recruiting! HA! It is a nice thing to see....
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Post by maddogfagin on Sept 18, 2008 18:04:03 GMT
The last two shows I went to, Fowey in 2007 and RFH in 2008 there was a mix of ages present. In fact at Fowey (pronounced foy for some reason) there was a couple my age one side of me, a friend who supplied our travel arrangements who was seeing Tull for the very first time at the age of 40ish and next to him a couple who looked as though they were in their early twenties. I echo Col's thoughts about hearing the band for the first time and I hope my two granddaughters decide to listen to Tull's music at some time if only to hear what their mad Gramps was always going on about.
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