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Post by fatman on Jul 23, 2009 17:00:39 GMT
If you take it literally and I did on the first few hundred listenings way back in the land of youth it would be the familiar story of young boy having an affair with older woman. Seem to recall that that was a typical 18/19 year old fantasy as I had a friend who used to boast about the older barmaid fancying him "She's really old must be about forty!!" etc etc ;D But even then I realised that there was much much more to it than youthful boasting. Here was a boy maybe living out his sexual fantasy yet being miserable, critical, guilty? and regretful at the same time. So I ruled out this theory cause I don't think that would neccessarily be how a young boy would look at that There's anger and a bit of childish spite in the lyrics now I'm not too clever on the personal details in Anderson's life and dates however one of the reasons I love those Australian interviews is for the body language when he's being quite frank about his songs. See it at 1.02 - 1.33 secs into the second interview when he talks about his father. My hunch and it's probably hysterically funny to anyone who knows Anderson but I think the song is about his father and maybe his parents? I think that maybe he is the youngest in his family with maybe a sizeable age gap between siblings and that his parents were certainly not old but not young parents either. Mind you I basing that also on the picture of his father and all men in the 50's dressed and looked older anyway. Taking that into consideration and also the period of social change among the youth (we in the UK were a few years behind America in catching up with the changes) and also I assume the strict presbyterian upbringing he had all this tumbled out into lyrics in a song. SO I think Sossity is about; Time, pain, determination, using his long life and the choices he will make ahead as ammunition against his past. That would appear to be one of a few plausible explainations for the whole of Benefit too. Maybe? Interesting hypothesis, but I don't think we know enough about Ian's mother -- he rarely talks about her -- or his father's relationship with his mother, to make that conclusion. Plus the line about "our affair being mended" seems pretty clear. But, still, I agree there are puzzling aspects to the lyrics so it's far from clear exactly what he means, and I've never really gotten the whole Sossity/Society thing anyway. How do you get Sossity from society? Jeff
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Post by fatman on Jul 23, 2009 17:12:37 GMT
I used to think that about From a Dead Beat, when I was young and first getting into Tull. But the song has grown on me so much to the point where I now love it. It's stark simplicity and reminiscense of an earlier age are what makes it sadly beautiful, and I just love the sax solo. Jeff I'm with you Jeff. From A Deadbeat is quite possibly one of my most favorite Tull tracks period. The strange thing about it is it just doesn't sound like anything else, it is unique. I love the sadness in the melody and chords, and that solo, man I wish it would never end. But Jeff, next time you take a listen to that solo pay particular attention to Martin's Guitar work playing the melody underneath the sax. His playing of that melody is utterly beautiful. Look at that, we finally agree on something. I take your post as an olive branch, and I accept it. I am going to listen for Martin's guitar underlying the saxophone, it's not something I've necessarily singled out in the past. I feel the whole album is vastly underrated, but I admit I am somewhat partial, as it was the first new Tull album that came out after I discovered Tull as a 15 year old. The reason I like the album is that it is so unique, the fact that it sounds like a soundtrack to the show that it was originally intended to be; the astute social commentary and coining of a phrase; the female backing vocals; the sax solo we mentioned; the slide guitar in Taxi Grab; the pizzicato plucking of Pied Piper; the front "up yours" cover art and cartoon strip; the crass vulgarisms that course through the lyrics. There are some unusual touches for Tull, and at times, it's almost like a solo acoustic album. Crazed Institution is one of my favorites, so is Pied Piper, and let's not forget the remastered version with Small Cigar and Strip Cartoon, which is one of Tull's most joyous songs. The whole album is a lot of fun. And for some reason, I've noticed that the title track is well-loved by people who are not fans of Tull. Jeff
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Post by nonrabbit on Jul 23, 2009 19:07:02 GMT
Interesting hypothesis, but I don't think we know enough about Ian's mother -- he rarely talks about her -- or his father's relationship with his mother, to make that conclusion. Plus the line about "our affair being mended" seems pretty clear. But, still, I agree there are puzzling aspects to the lyrics so it's far from clear exactly what he means, and I've never really gotten the whole Sossity/Society thing anyway. How do you get Sossity from society? Jeff Unless I'm missing something but if you google Sossity all that seems to come up is this song and a girl's name whom I am assuming are called after this song. I'm not really sure what Sossity is. Is it a girl's name prior to this song or did he put the word sossity in as it sounds like society Is the song therefore political and camouflaged as a disenchanted love song.
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Post by nonrabbit on Jul 26, 2009 10:47:22 GMT
I've tucked in the posts referring to Broadsword in this thread (or should we have a new thread for the albums separately from the songs??)
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Post by nonrabbit on Jul 26, 2009 10:58:04 GMT
See thread - "No New Album This Year" for previous posts relating to Tull songs JohnTetrad, you have very eloquently put it all into perspective. Good job. my own two cents: I know I'm in the minority here.....but to me "Roots...." was brilliant. 1995. "Dot" was very decent. 1999 "...Birds" was gorgeous. But, still, we're talking already a decade ago! I'm also in the minority vis a vis "Under Wraps" and "Walk Into..." which I thought were excellent. My other two cents: Ian ONLY cares about the money. That's the one thing that really pisses me off, because I luv him so much in all other ways. It's been proven over and over again. Great example is when "Under Wraps" flopped (commercially, at least here in the States) he did a long Market Research thing to see what would sell the next time out. which wound up being "Crest..". You think you're in the minority? Well I'm probably the only Tull fan who thinks Broadsword was their worst. Jeff
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Post by nonrabbit on Jul 26, 2009 10:59:51 GMT
TM wrote....
Interesting because there was a time that Ian would never have made an album like Broadsword.
But I tend to believe that Gerry Conway may be the reason the album sounds so simple or main stream.
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Post by nonrabbit on Jul 26, 2009 11:01:37 GMT
You think you're in the minority? Well I'm probably the only Tull fan who thinks Broadsword was their worst. Jeff JEFF!! Noooooooooooooooo don't say that - words fail me...and when they come back a new thread about Broadsword ;D ;D
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Post by nonrabbit on Jul 26, 2009 11:07:36 GMT
Steelmonkey
I think 'The Clasp' has some of the best drumming of any Tull song ever...they sing! I love Conway's drumming on The Clasp and most of broadsword. I think of broadsword as better than average Tull...not the best but far from the worst...some of the extra songs are a bit dreary and i never liked 'broadsword', the title cut...or overhang...or 'living in these hard times'...but Pussy Wiilow, Seal Driver' and The Clasp are well-drummed classics
TM
I have to admit that I do find myself isolating on drums when I listen to that record, and I contemplate the amount of "space" given throughout, as well as the overly simple fills that he used.
Barrie and even Mark Craney - but especially Barrie at the 'throne' would have had a profound effect on the music. I agree that Gerry did a fine job on songs like the Clasp, but I think Barrie would have taken the entire album to another level.
Drummers like Gerry and even Doane, while very talented players tend to remain more to the back of the song. While guys like Neal Peart and Barrie's work were much more to the forefront and actually become the music
Mix
I agree about Barrie, he just brought something special to the table, more than just the usual drums, he was very musical.
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Post by steelmonkey on Jul 26, 2009 15:36:52 GMT
I never thought about how 'The Clasp' and some of the other Broadsword songs may have turned out with Barriemore Barlow drumming...now that I have, i completely agree...I think he could have taken those songs to a whole new level.....I just noticed the good drum parts without realizing that the 'space available' for drumming is the first step and, as nice as Conway's use of that space sounds...Barlow, I'm guessing, would have done even better.
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Post by fatman on Jul 27, 2009 16:46:31 GMT
You think you're in the minority? Well I'm probably the only Tull fan who thinks Broadsword was their worst. Jeff JEFF!! Noooooooooooooooo don't say that - words fail me...and when they come back a new thread about Broadsword ;D ;D Broadsword just felt like such a commercial, lightweight album, especially when compared to the menacing, ominous A, which was a truly effective album, the last real "heavyweight" Tull album in my opinion. The production on Broadsword was so slick, and it was seemingly intended to get a lot of radio airplay and appeal to a wide audience including, I felt, Boston, Styx and Journey fans. (The keyboards on Flying Colors in particular reminded me of Journey.) The album was a collection of, for the most part, pretty average songs, along with three that are so bad they are almost unlistenable, Beastie, Watching You, Watching Me and Flying Colors. I thought The Clasp and Slow Marching Band were both excellent, however neither they nor anything else on the album can really be considered Tull classics, which explains why nothing on the album was ever played live after the Broadsword tour, with the exception of the little Cheerio finale. (Please note that my comments refer to the original album, not the remastered version with the bonus tracks which include Jack-A-Lynn, arguably a Tull classic.) Jeff
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Post by tullabye on Jul 28, 2009 5:20:50 GMT
Broadsword just felt like such a commercial, lightweight album, especially when compared to the menacing, ominous A, which was a truly effective album, the last real "heavyweight" Tull album in my opinion. The production on Broadsword was so slick, and it was seemingly intended to get a lot of radio airplay and appeal to a wide audience including, I felt, Boston, Styx and Journey fans. (The keyboards on Flying Colors in particular reminded me of Journey.) The album was a collection of, for the most part, pretty average songs, along with three that are so bad they are almost unlistenable, Beastie, Watching You, Watching Me and Flying Colors. I thought The Clasp and Slow Marching Band were both excellent, however neither they nor anything else on the album can really be considered Tull classics, which explains why nothing on the album was ever played live after the Broadsword tour, with the exception of the little Cheerio finale. (Please note that my comments refer to the original album, not the remastered version with the bonus tracks which include Jack-A-Lynn, arguably a Tull classic.)
Broadsword while not their best was certainly as good and actually much better than A, which is quite possibly their worst. Comparing Flying Colours to Journey or Styx is laughable. I think it is one of the best on the album and always gets turned up on the stereo. For me that is where the excellent songs begin and conyinue until the end. Watching You is vastly underrated song which packs more punch than anything on A save the great Black Sunday. For me Black Sunday and Working John are really the only songs that pack the heavyweight punch you speak of. I also like the instrumentull and Further on but really the songs on Broadsword are superior. The unreleased batch alone is proof that it was a great period for Tull. By the way, how many ot he A songs have been retained in the live list, as if that has anything to do with it.
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Post by fatman on Jul 28, 2009 16:07:03 GMT
Broadsword just felt like such a commercial, lightweight album, especially when compared to the menacing, ominous A, which was a truly effective album, the last real "heavyweight" Tull album in my opinion. The production on Broadsword was so slick, and it was seemingly intended to get a lot of radio airplay and appeal to a wide audience including, I felt, Boston, Styx and Journey fans. (The keyboards on Flying Colors in particular reminded me of Journey.) The album was a collection of, for the most part, pretty average songs, along with three that are so bad they are almost unlistenable, Beastie, Watching You, Watching Me and Flying Colors. I thought The Clasp and Slow Marching Band were both excellent, however neither they nor anything else on the album can really be considered Tull classics, which explains why nothing on the album was ever played live after the Broadsword tour, with the exception of the little Cheerio finale. (Please note that my comments refer to the original album, not the remastered version with the bonus tracks which include Jack-A-Lynn, arguably a Tull classic.)Broadsword while not their best was certainly as good and actually much better than A, which is quite possibly their worst. Comparing Flying Colours to Journey or Styx is laughable. I think it is one of the best on the album and always gets turned up on the stereo. For me that is where the excellent songs begin and conyinue until the end. Watching You is vastly underrated song which packs more punch than anything on A save the great Black Sunday. For me Black Sunday and Working John are really the only songs that pack the heavyweight punch you speak of. I also like the instrumentull and Further on but really the songs on Broadsword are superior. The unreleased batch alone is proof that it was a great period for Tull. By the way, how many ot he A songs have been retained in the live list, as if that has anything to do with it. We obviously differ, but the least you can do is respect my opinion rather than call my views "laughable." To me, Broadsword was commercial pablum, with mostly average songs and lame drumming, whereas A was a serious progressive rock album, with great songs and powerful drumming, that is one of Tull's best. Flyingdale Flyer is better than anything on Broadsword, as far as I'm concerned, same goes for Black Sunday. I also love the cynicism and distrust of government expressed in songs like Crossfire, Working John, Working Joe, Protect and Survive and Uniforms, with Eddie Jobson's chilling electric violin solo and interplay with Ian's flute. Lyrically A is superb, much superior to Broadsword which has some very awkward lyrics in songs like Beastie ("stare that beastie in the face and really give him hell"), Fallen on Hard Times ("soon there will be raised a holy stink") and Watching you, Watching Me. A was a terrifying album, which perfectly conveyed the fear of the cold-war era. For awhile it seemed dated, but ever since 9/11 it suddenly feels relevant again. The lyrics from And Further On, are almost like Nostradamus or something. "We saw the Heavens break/and all the World go down to sleep/saw fiery angels kiss the dawn/will we still be here further on?" I watched the Twin Towers that morning from the corner of Bleecker and Mercer. I saw the fireballs rising up and, later, the 'World' (Trade Center towers) going down to sleep, and was wondering whether NYC would still be here for the next several months, with constant sirens as the City went from one scare to the next....it was truly surreal. What can possibly "pack more of a punch" than that? Nothing on Broadsword, that's for sure. Jeff P.S. To answer your question, Black Sunday and Pine Marten's Jig both have made it into the Tull set well after the A tour. Nothing from Broadsword ever has.
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mix
Journeyman
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Post by mix on Jul 28, 2009 16:14:53 GMT
Broadsword just felt like such a commercial, lightweight album, especially when compared to the menacing, ominous A, which was a truly effective album, the last real "heavyweight" Tull album in my opinion. The production on Broadsword was so slick, and it was seemingly intended to get a lot of radio airplay and appeal to a wide audience including, I felt, Boston, Styx and Journey fans. (The keyboards on Flying Colors in particular reminded me of Journey.) The album was a collection of, for the most part, pretty average songs, along with three that are so bad they are almost unlistenable, Beastie, Watching You, Watching Me and Flying Colors. I thought The Clasp and Slow Marching Band were both excellent, however neither they nor anything else on the album can really be considered Tull classics, which explains why nothing on the album was ever played live after the Broadsword tour, with the exception of the little Cheerio finale. (Please note that my comments refer to the original album, not the remastered version with the bonus tracks which include Jack-A-Lynn, arguably a Tull classic.)Broadsword while not their best was certainly as good and actually much better than A, which is quite possibly their worst. Comparing Flying Colours to Journey or Styx is laughable. I think it is one of the best on the album and always gets turned up on the stereo. For me that is where the excellent songs begin and conyinue until the end. Watching You is vastly underrated song which packs more punch than anything on A save the great Black Sunday. For me Black Sunday and Working John are really the only songs that pack the heavyweight punch you speak of. I also like the instrumentull and Further on but really the songs on Broadsword are superior. The unreleased batch alone is proof that it was a great period for Tull. By the way, how many ot he A songs have been retained in the live list, as if that has anything to do with it. We obviously differ, but the least you can do is respect my opinion rather than call my views "laughable." To me, Broadsword was commercial pablum, with mostly average songs and lame drumming, whereas A was a serious progressive rock album, with great songs and powerful drumming, that is one of Tull's best. Flyingdale Flyer is better than anything on Broadsword, as far as I'm concerned, same goes for Black Sunday. I also love the cynicism and distrust of government expressed in songs like Crossfire, Working John, Working Joe, Protect and Survive and Uniforms, with Eddie Jobson's chilling electric violin solo and interplay with Ian's flute. Lyrically A is superb, much superior to Broadsword which has some very awkward lyrics in songs like Beastie ("stare that beastie in the face and really give him hell"), Fallen on Hard Times ("soon there will be raised a holy stink") and Watching you, Watching Me. A was a terrifying album, which perfectly conveyed the fear of the cold-war era. For awhile it seemed dated, but ever since 9/11 it suddenly feels relevant again. The lyrics from And Further On, are almost like Nostradamus or something. "We saw the Heavens break/and all the World go down to sleep/saw fiery angels kiss the dawn/will we still be here further on?" I watched the Twin Towers that morning from the corner of Bleecker and Mercer. I saw the fireballs rising up and, later, the 'World' (Trade Center towers) going down to sleep, and was wondering whether NYC would still be here for the next several months, with constant sirens as the City went from one scare to the next....it was truly surreal. What can possibly "pack more of a punch" than that? Nothing on Broadsword, that's for sure. Jeff P.S. To answer your question, Black Sunday and Pine Marten's Jig both have made it into the Tull set well after the A tour. Nothing from Broadsword ever has. For me what I have loved about Tull is the way most albums shift direction. Broadsword certainly has a commercial 80's sound about it but strip away the production and there are some great songs/moments on that album. I came to BS quite late and the version I have on CD was terrible, it sounded like someone transferred it from the Vinyl bought at a car boot sale. Anyway, didn't Ian bring in a producer for broadsword?
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Post by tullabye on Jul 29, 2009 3:55:16 GMT
Jeff, I respect your opinion but comparing the great Flying Colours to Journey is a joke. I like everything about the song and might even be in the minority on this board, but what is there not to like. The subject matter is relevant to anyone who's ever had a love/ hate relationship and the vocals, lryics and musicianship is fabulous. Nothing commercial about the keyboards whatsoever. To me the images painted in Ian's lryics on the album such as the simple yet beautiful opening verse " I see a dark sail on the horizon, set under a black cloud that hides the sun, of Broadsword along with the haunting pow wow drumming is perfect. There is nothing that simple and yet beautiful on A. A is a bore and I would bet their worst selling LP of the era. I think Uniform and 4wheel Drive are commercial wrecks, Protect and Survive highly forgetable, except for the acoustic instrumentull version, Flyer one of the most overrated Tull songs to date and just nothing to memorable other than Black Sunday on the album. Also the production and sound is horrid. As with all Tull albums there are strong moments but really nothing, other than Black Sunday, as strong as the majority of songs on Broadsword. If you take Beastie and Fallen on Hard Times out you have one of Tulls finest moments. As for future tours Pine Martin may have been played once or twice but rarely and BS a few times. Nothing can compare to the live version of Jackalynn on youtube and I am sure that Fallen on Hard Times, PW and bits of others such as Kelpie have been in plenty of shows since.
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Post by nonrabbit on Jul 29, 2009 9:36:41 GMT
It's ironic (for me) because Broadsword was the album that brought me back to Tull after my 1st gap - there's only been 2 and I'm back for good now! After TAAB and all the previous ones - I only gave Minstrel a couple of goes and didn't like it as much and I hold my hands up - I drifted for a bit. 1982..Attracted to Broadsword cover and wanted to rekindle the Tull love. As I've said before I fell hook line and sinker for the whole (hate to use the word - sorry Ian) concept of Nordic/Norse/Celtic whatever you want to call it Tull. The imagery it conveys as well as some of the most beautiful songs they have ever done. Clasp/SMB/PW - some for the melody some just as much for the lyrics. Beastie and Broadsword suit the album as a whole. That's how I heard the album. As Ian has said himself; " ..the music was some of our best and synths and gadgets aside, the brilliant guitar work of Monsieur Le Barre and my trusty acoustic additions saved the day..."he did acknowledge prior to that quote; " But, in the wake of Punk and the dawning of the mannered art-school pop of the new wave of British bands, Broadsword did not fare too well in the USA. It was however our fastest - selling and biggest album in Germany and did well throughout Europe..."Is he right? what was it about the album, in general, that didn't go down so well in the States? Ps.. Be interested in comments from our members in Europe too and we must start a recruitement drive elsewhere in the world - where's my passport
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mmike
Prentice Jack
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Post by mmike on Jul 29, 2009 13:26:56 GMT
I thought the songs (BSB) were up there with some of his best work although the sound (recording) was pitiful and the electronics were too heavily used for my taste. The concert tour had a great stage and besides RI it was one of the last theatrical productions that I enjoyed by Tull. The remaster did a decent job in bringing back sonics to the album for sure. I don't believe I could compare it to "A" as most all of Tull's music has stood on it's own. I have been more of a critic ever sense Dot.com (a decent album but not great flow) but there hasn't been much that I can say other than Tull as a group just doesn't put out much new music for what ever reasons that they have. And as entertaining as it may be Ian's solo shows for me just haven't cut it for my tastes. Mike [quote author As Ian has said himself; " ..the music was some of our best and synths and gadgets aside, the brilliant guitar work of Monsieur Le Barre and my trusty acoustic additions saved the day..."he did acknowledge prior to that quote; " But, in the wake of Punk and the dawning of the mannered art-school pop of the new wave of British bands, Broadsword did not fare too well in the USA. It was however our fastest - selling and biggest album in Germany and did well throughout Europe..."Is he right? what was it about the album, in general, that didn't go down so well in the States? Ps.. Be interested in comments from our members in Europe too and we must start a recruitement drive elsewhere in the world - where's my passport [/quote]
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Post by fatman on Jul 29, 2009 15:45:51 GMT
Jeff, I respect your opinion but comparing the great Flying Colours to Journey is a joke. I like everything about the song and might even be in the minority on this board, but what is there not to like. The subject matter is relevant to anyone who's ever had a love/ hate relationship and the vocals, lryics and musicianship is fabulous. Nothing commercial about the keyboards whatsoever. To me the images painted in Ian's lryics on the album such as the simple yet beautiful opening verse " I see a dark sail on the horizon, set under a black cloud that hides the sun, of Broadsword along with the haunting pow wow drumming is perfect. There is nothing that simple and yet beautiful on A. A is a bore and I would bet their worst selling LP of the era. I think Uniform and 4wheel Drive are commercial wrecks, Protect and Survive highly forgetable, except for the acoustic instrumentull version, Flyer one of the most overrated Tull songs to date and just nothing to memorable other than Black Sunday on the album. Also the production and sound is horrid. As with all Tull albums there are strong moments but really nothing, other than Black Sunday, as strong as the majority of songs on Broadsword. If you take Beastie and Fallen on Hard Times out you have one of Tulls finest moments. As for future tours Pine Martin may have been played once or twice but rarely and BS a few times. Nothing can compare to the live version of Jackalynn on youtube and I am sure that Fallen on Hard Times, PW and bits of others such as Kelpie have been in plenty of shows since. It's a little pointless arguing about subjective preferences, however, objectively speaking, your reference to A as "a bore" is a joke. A is, undeniably, a fascinating record. It captures the mood of the times, by creating a tense and frightening musical atmosphere which mirrored what was happening in the world at that time. I don't know how old you are, but 1980, when A was released, was the height of the Cold War. Russia had invaded Afghanistan. Radical Islam was on the rise. Ronald Reagan was running for office, and many people were convinced that if he won, there would be a nuclear war with the Russians. The dark, foreboding A album tapped into the universal fear that people felt, and proferred an apocalyptic vision of what the world would be like if nuclear war were to happen. Like all good science fiction -- and that's really what A is -- the album was a warning to society. Although the album for awhile seemed dated after the fall of communist Russia and during the economic prosperity of the nineties, future events have shown what a timeless and prophetic album A really is, with Ian Anderson predicting the renewed threat of nuclear war and anarchy (Black Sunday, Protect and Survive), global economic collapse and terrorism, with And Further On coming as close to predicting 9/11 as anyone can possibly come. I'll never forget listening to the album after having witnessed the attacks on the World Trade Center and feeling a chill go down my spine when I was reading the words to And Further On, about the fiery angels kissing the dawn and the "World" going down to sleep, and wondering whether NYC would still be here "further on." You call Ian's prophetic vision boring? The album as a whole just works, it is greater than the sum of its parts and even the weaker numbers like Batteries Not Included contribute to the overwhelming feeling of terror and dread that the album effectively conjures up. It is far more of an adventurous and progressive album than the boring, bland Broadsword. Broadsword was an attempt to win broad commercial appeal; it was intended to appeal to a wide and undiscriminating audience, with its radio-friendly approach. There are few excellent songs and three very bad ones, including Tull's most annoying song ever, Watching You, Watching Me. The Clasp and Slow Marching Band are both gems, but the title track, Pussywillow, Seal Driver, etc. are just okay songs, and overall it is really a weak album (for Tull), very forgettable with sub-par lyrics, simple keyboards, boring drumming and thin, nasally vocals throughout. (Again, I am not including the bonus tracks in my assessment, just the ten songs on the original album.) The vocals are so nasally, and low in the mix, that I constantly find myself turning the volume up whenever I listen to it. Contrast that to Ian's powerful singing on a great song like Uniforms, which tells the tale of conquest and occupation by a strange foreign power, and has the exciting interplay between Ian's flute and Eddie's electric violin, with Ian energetically urging Eddie on, 'Go Eddie Go.' You will never convince me that Broadsword is a better album than A. Broadsword is, in my opinion, an attempt at a commercial sell out, whereas A is an important and serious Tull album. Jeff
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Lucas
Prentice Jack
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Post by Lucas on Aug 6, 2009 11:40:35 GMT
Tull discography doesn't stop surprising me with it's variety and some songs can just sound completely new and different from time to time. And what to say about Tull alive? There are dozens of great bootlegs, and each year, each tour has different versions of old songs, medleys, acoustic versions, an infinity of amazing stuff. Two examples over the years: 69/70 - Bourée/Living in The Past : Bourée played with an different introduction where Ian and Martin Play flute, and it has Living in the Past later, a great medley 75/76 - The amazing medley containing To Cry You a Song, New Day Yesterday, Flute Solo, and little pieces of TAAB and Living In The Past
I could enumerate maaaany more examples of amazing live versions.
About BB, I agree with something Dave Pegg said once: The tracks that were recorded at the time but wasn't released in the album, just later in special box set's and as bonus in the remaster made a better album than BB itself. The bonus track of the remaster:
"Jack Frost and the Hooded Crow" "Jack A Lynn" "Mayhem Maybe" "Too Many Too" "Overhang" "Rhythm in Gold" "I Am Your Gun" "Down At the End of Your Road"
One more from the same sessions is "Motoreyes" And There's 4 more released in Nightcap: "Crew Nights" "The Curse" "Drive On The Young Side Of Life" "Lights Out"
I personally love Jack A Lynn, what a song!
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Post by nonrabbit on Oct 7, 2009 7:04:56 GMT
For Michael Collins..........
Ranks up there as one of the most imaginative subject matters ever to write a song about. Written also at the time when everyone's attention was focused solely on Armstrong/Aldrin. Wonder why the young Ian felt strongly enough about Collins? Was there something in his life at the time that made him feel left out?
Never understood the lines...
...beckon tearful child of wonder to repentance of the sin. And the blind and lusty lovers of the great eternal lie go on believing nothing since something has to die.
Ps Was it played anywhere this year - 40th??
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Post by nonrabbit on Dec 2, 2009 8:54:20 GMT
not so much dissecting songs as vocals... imo his vocals sound a lot like Roy Harper here especially at the start?
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Post by maddogfagin on Dec 7, 2009 8:39:50 GMT
not so much dissecting songs as vocals... imo his vocals sound a lot like Roy Harper here especially at the start? Have to agree ms nonrabbit. I've only one Harper album, HQ, and you can hear some instances IMO of his influences on IA and it does contain my favourite song of his "When an old cricketer leaves the crease". Harper played as support act to quite a few concerts we saw in the late sixties, early seventies, but he did himself no favours at the time by always performing "Nobodys got any money in the summer" every time which was the excuse for many of the concert goers to go for an early drink at the bar or a pee break. "Chinese wrestler’s jock strap cooked in chip fat on a greasy day" anybody?
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Post by nonrabbit on Jan 27, 2010 6:10:53 GMT
One Brown Mouse
never really saw this connection before but given that it was Burn's night ie Scottish celebration night for Robert Burns one of Scotlands great poets I came across this.
The video which is in Scottish shows not only the wee brown mouse but the horse and plough as well. He mentions too the demise of the land with the invention of the plough!
Not only was Anderson influenced by the poem John Steinbeck took the title of his 1937 novel Of Mice and Men from a line contained in the second-to-last stanza: "The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft agley"
The first stanza of the poem is read by Ian Anderson in the beginning of the 2007 remaster of "One Brown Mouse" by Jethro Tull. Anderson adds the line "But a mouse is a mouse, for all that," at the end of the stanza, which is a reference to another of Burn's songs, "Is There for Honest Poverty", commonly known as "A Man's a Man for A' That".
Here's a quick translation of the first part; incidently the Scottish translation of "beast" is small animal ( I still think he mean't that midge in Beastie!) ;D
Small, sleek, cowering, timorous beast, O, what a panic is in your breast! You need not start away so hasty With hurrying scamper! I would be loath to run and chase you, With murdering plough-staff.
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Post by nonrabbit on Feb 22, 2010 9:15:14 GMT
Benefit is often described as the angsty album - the young person looking back at childhood and into the future. One of the reasons perhaps why it struck so many in the teenage years. Looking at the lyrics of most of the songs on the album they all talk about time in particular ...years. "fifty years" "ten years" or "sixty days" etc Anyone any ideas what he meant by this line? ...if anything "Ten days for watching the sunset.." in the context of the song Son?
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Post by maddogfagin on Feb 22, 2010 12:17:31 GMT
Benefit is often described as the angsty album - the young person looking back at childhood and into the future. One of the reasons perhaps why it struck so many in the teenage years. Looking at the lyrics of most of the songs on the album they all talk about time in particular ...years. "fifty years" "ten years" or "sixty days" etc Anyone any ideas what he meant by this line? ...if anything "Ten days for watching the sunset.." in the context of the song Son? Oh, I feel sympathy. Be grateful my son for what you get. Expression and passion. Ten days for watching the sunset; when I was your age amusement we made for ourselves. ''Permission to breathe sir,'' don't talk like that, I'm your old man. They'll soon be demobbed son, so join up as soon as you can. You can't borrow that `cos that's for the races and doesn't grow on trees.
I only feel what touches me and feel in touching I can see a better state to be in. Who has the right to question what I might do, in feeling I should touch the real and only things I feel.
It's advice and it's nice to know when you're best advised. You've only turned thirty, so son, you'd better apologize. And when you grow up, if you're good we will buy you a bike. Probably get shot down by others but it's a highly personal song and relates to IA's relationship with his Father who, at the time wanted him to get a "proper job". Relates to me about boredom (in my case in south London where everything was "grey"), the generation gap, family angst (to use your word for it) and a time when the younger generation needed to change from the post war theologies of their parents to ones of their own. In context with all the songs on Benefit it symbolises imo this change of attitude. I can relate this to my parents 100% when they used to question why myself and my friends used to frequent places that they did not like without actually knowing anything about them. Dad liked jazz and wondered why I didn't (he was a mason as well whose "ideas" weren't mine) and Mum tried to be a piller of society and couldn't understand why, for instance, I wasn't interested in meeting the local "big wigs" etc. In retrospect I'm glad I kept my own council and avoided theirs, much to their obvous disapproval. In later years of his life, when Dad was on his own, he actually said that he wished he'd not been so tied to his parents ideas and had done a few other things with his life but I suppose the attitudes prevalent in his youth and the hiatus caused by the second world war meant any originality that he and his contemporaries wanted was put on the back burner. But coming back to Benefit I reckon that's why so many of the "baby boomers" relate to the album. I can just imagine IA and his friends sitting on Blackpool promonade just staring into the sun at sunset, bored out their tiny skulls and wondering what life had in store for them.
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Post by nonrabbit on Feb 22, 2010 21:54:45 GMT
put perfectly Maddog thanks for sharing that and a beautiful pic I think he was remembering his father's sarcasm and nagging at the start of Son "Ten days for watching the sunset" Why only ten days to watch the sunset? were they on holiday? There were other songs and artists that dealt with something like the same theme however Benefit and Anderson hit the nail on the head! He got in "ma heed" some might say messed it up
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Post by steelmonkey on Feb 24, 2010 1:21:15 GMT
on the track of it being Ian's teenage rebellion memoirs, maybe that line is as trite as getting grounded for breaking curfew?
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Post by maddogfagin on Feb 24, 2010 16:34:27 GMT
on the track of it being Ian's teenage rebellion memoirs, maybe that line is as trite as getting grounded for breaking curfew? Reckon you're correct Steel. Grounded and gazing out of his bedroom window wondering what the next few months have in store for him. Been there, done that and got the tee shirt
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kleynan
Journeyman
Thick as a Brick
Posts: 89
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Post by kleynan on Mar 4, 2010 14:32:38 GMT
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but the character "Biggles" mentioned in the ending of part 1 of TAAB and later again in part 2, who / what is he? Ive scanned my TAAB Cover for clues, but there are no real indication of who it might refer to. Is it just to show that the main-characters friends are taking a distance from him and his new ways?
The lyrics go:
"So where the hell was Biggles? When you needed him last saturday. And where are all the Sportsmen, that always pull you through They're all resting down in Cornwall, right up their memoires for a paperback edition, of the boyscout manual"
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Post by nonrabbit on Mar 4, 2010 18:07:10 GMT
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but the character "Biggles" mentioned in the ending of part 1 of TAAB and later again in part 2, who / what is he? Ive scanned my TAAB Cover for clues, but there are no real indication of who it might refer to. Is it just to show that the main-characters friends are taking a distance from him and his new ways? The lyrics go: "So where the hell was Biggles? When you needed him last saturday. And where are all the Sportsmen, that always pull you through They're all resting down in Cornwall, right up their memoires for a paperback edition, of the boyscout manual" ask away someone will know not necessarily an expert either I always took it as Biggles referring to a hero who failed to save the day and given the fact it was written in England in the early 1970's it would have been an appropriate name still in those days also it's mentioned in the same verse as the Boys Scout manual. He had already referred to Superman and Robin elsewhere
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Post by maddogfagin on Mar 4, 2010 18:43:48 GMT
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but the character "Biggles" mentioned in the ending of part 1 of TAAB and later again in part 2, who / what is he? Ive scanned my TAAB Cover for clues, but there are no real indication of who it might refer to. Is it just to show that the main-characters friends are taking a distance from him and his new ways? The lyrics go: "So where the hell was Biggles? When you needed him last saturday. And where are all the Sportsmen, that always pull you through They're all resting down in Cornwall, right up their memoires for a paperback edition, of the boyscout manual" Welcome to the Forum Kleynan. Interesting post re. Biggles. From wikipedia: "Biggles" (nickname for James Bigglesworth), a pilot and adventurer, is the title character and main hero of the Biggles series of youth-oriented adventure books written by W. E. Johns. He first appeared in the story "The White Fokker", published in the first issue of Popular Flying magazine, in 1932. The first collection of Biggles stories, The Camels are Coming, was published that same year. The series was continued until the author's death in 1968, eventually spanning nearly a hundred volumes - including novels and short story collections - most, but not all, of the latter with a common setting and time frame. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biggles In a way, the character has taken on a Sherlock Holmes existance whereby there are people worldwide who think he was a real person. In fact, the character is almost in the same league as King Arthur as many expect him to rise up at the hour of need and to rid the British Isles of its enemies. Me, I'd prefer a McDonalds or KFC ;D
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