|
Post by keenly on Sept 15, 2015 21:37:30 GMT
Ian supports giant corporations raping the Earth, decimating farming and poisoning us. It is disgusting. It never challenges the establishment and believes anything he is told. I am furious with him. He never challenges Monsanto who created agent Orange used in Vietnam, he never challenges war mongering politicians yet rants about people have lots of kids, and even insults them.
Establishment shill, I am very dissapointed after years of supporting Tull. What a moronic man who likes Bush, Blair and the BBC.
|
|
|
Post by steelmonkey on Sept 15, 2015 21:59:02 GMT
Try the new Neil Young album...'The Monsanto Years' very anti-GMO. I think the truth is halfway inbetween. Money grubbing corporations that put profit above real science and human beings' health should be stopped and their leaders hung from lightposts, no doubt. But feeding the population of earth...growing beyond all reason and sustainability, may require a few tricks from the same sleeve that extended lifespans and decreased childhood mortality....Neil himself is kept alive by insulin...a very, very GMO.
|
|
|
Post by futureshock on Sept 16, 2015 0:30:01 GMT
I've chosen not to discuss the Monsanto/GMO issue here, as it's certainly not where I expect to find people who are regularly informing themselves on that issue like it mattered in a big way to them. I noticed a possible red flag at one point but do not have specifics on what's being promoted by I.A. either in interviews or in these new JT-homage songs. I will say that the way Monsanto acts with seeds, chemicals, business and legal manipulations, and certainly also political and media manipulations of all kinds (they have extremely slick marketing and well-funded agents well into third and fourth generations), is not really focused on what's needed for feeding the world now or later. It's not for me to continue on that here. If you want to know about Monsanto, look wide and far for the international behavior, the biochemistry and ecological conflicts, the ownership links, the business system applied, the situations that have happened, etc., it's just too easy to find the full story. I'm not a core source of that, nor can I see this website being a good place to deal with it. If this issue percolates on this website, I'm not going to be participating further.
|
|
|
Post by onewhiteduck on Sept 16, 2015 7:48:39 GMT
Ian supports giant corporations raping the Earth, decimating farming and poisoning us. It is disgusting. It never challenges the establishment and believes anything he is told. I am furious with him. He never challenges Monsanto who created agent Orange used in Vietnam, he never challenges war mongering politicians yet rants about people have lots of kids, and even insults them. Establishment shill, I am very dissapointed after years of supporting Tull. What a moronic man who likes Bush, Blair and the BBC. Rather not get into this on the forum. Its not appropriate for what we are about. Greatful if moderators consider its validity here. Now can we talk about politics - I thing the right wing establishment are .... sorry just meandered for a second. OneModifiedDuck
|
|
|
Post by maddogfagin on Sept 16, 2015 8:41:28 GMT
I've chosen not to discuss the Monsanto/GMO issue here, as it's certainly not where I expect to find people who are regularly informing themselves on that issue like it mattered in a big way to them. I noticed a possible red flag at one point but do not have specifics on what's being promoted by I.A. either in interviews or in these new JT-homage songs. I will say that the way Monsanto acts with seeds, chemicals, business and legal manipulations, and certainly also political and media manipulations of all kinds (they have extremely slick marketing and well-funded agents well into third and fourth generations), is not really focused on what's needed for feeding the world now or later. It's not for me to continue on that here. If you want to know about Monsanto, look wide and far for the international behavior, the biochemistry and ecological conflicts, the ownership links, the business system applied, the situations that have happened, etc., it's just too easy to find the full story. I'm not a core source of that, nor can I see this website being a good place to deal with it. If this issue percolates on this website, I'm not going to be participating further. A very difficult comment to answer for many reasons. Yes most of us here won't be fully aware of what goes on with GM crops, the chemicals used in cultivation etc and as you say there are places on the web with far more knowlegable people concerning the subject. On a personnel note I would for the most part leave it at that. All I would comment on is that I have to take a strict regime of medication and more than likely I'm here today because someone in the past manipulated a drug which has benefited myself and other people with a similar condition. In the context of Monsanto et al, if anyone wants or needs to know more, google the name and make up your own minds about the subject. The question as to whether it benefits the world population is not one most of us may want to argue about in the context of the JT Forum - there are places on the internet to do that.
|
|
|
Post by keenly on Sept 16, 2015 10:08:45 GMT
I think it is appropriate on this forum because Ian keeps pushing it! Very dangerous stuff. No interviewer calls him out on it.
|
|
|
Post by nonrabbit on Sept 16, 2015 11:37:51 GMT
I think it is appropriate on this forum because Ian keeps pushing it! Very dangerous stuff. No interviewer calls him out on it. Hello Keely Welcome to the ForumThere's lot of likes and dislikes of Ian's that we don't necessarily discuss in great detail - cats and chilies for example because it goes into a specialty subject that wouldn't necessarily appeal to the majority who post/view for the music and the band. Your very welcome to share your views on the band/music in general Cheers nonrabbit
|
|
|
Post by earsoftin on Sept 17, 2015 10:50:54 GMT
I think it is appropriate on this forum because Ian keeps pushing it! Very dangerous stuff. No interviewer calls him out on it.
I think that what is appropriate on this forum is how Ian tackles the issues. Given that most of us who have commented on the basis of attendance at the shows observe that it is hard to follow the lyrics and that the clues that we have are in the programme then it might be thought a little early to be able to say. I think that he is raising important questions about the debates we need to have (for the record, I think to oppose modern organic farming to science is a misleading opposition). What is interesting is the extent to which this reflects his own farming experience. As you say, these are matters more for interviewers than for this forum. I think that contrasting how he now develops these themes lyrically and musically in contrast to the pastoralism of SFTW/HH is interesting. Perhaps we are back to the more gloomy take that seems to happen in trilogies (thinking of Dark Ages from Stormwatch).
I also don't think that the tone of your initial observation is right for this forum (although sadly representative of much Internet discourse). Ian is a thoughtful artist and commentator, which I think attracts many of us to his work (as well as the fantastic music and performances). We may have many disagreements with aspects of this, but I think we can engage in proper discussion. I think it just wrong to accuse him of a 'depopulation method' rather than a concern with population control and he has been vocal in his condemnation of the Blair-Bush military interventions. He is provocative sometimes, and exasperating at times, but never an establishment figure.
|
|
Essan
Master Craftsman
Posts: 293
|
Post by Essan on Sept 17, 2015 14:06:55 GMT
I've not read the lyrics of his new material yet. But disagreeing with the message set out in the lyrics, or the political opinions of the writer, has never yet stopped me liking a good tune Or, continuing to like and support the artist. After all, we can't all agree on everything. And for every person who disaproves of the lyrics and/or the artist expressing his opinion in song, there will be another in full support of it.
|
|
|
Post by Budding Stately Hero on Feb 7, 2018 16:21:23 GMT
Well, they say ignorance is bliss. I find this old thread very interesting and gripping. I wish it was a longer thread, because I have very little knowledge about the subject and Ian's attitudes, experience, knowledge, writings and action regarding GMO's. If somebody has the time, I would very much appreciate this matter spelled-out and spoon fed to me. If there is a good read on the subject whether it be a book on the subject or even song lyrics, I would probably read up on it. I have a two year old daughter, and at 52 years old I would like to understand the things I currently do not understand in order to have "all the answers" in case she should ever ask.
"But, the rain wasn't made of water and the snow didn't have a place in the sun...."
Thanks good people.
|
|
|
Post by maddogfagin on Feb 8, 2018 8:41:49 GMT
Well, they say ignorance is bliss. I find this old thread very interesting and gripping. I wish it was a longer thread, because I have very little knowledge about the subject and Ian's attitudes, experience, knowledge, writings and action regarding GMO's. If somebody has the time, I would very much appreciate this matter spelled-out and spoon fed to me. If there is a good read on the subject whether it be a book on the subject or even song lyrics, I would probably read up on it. I have a two year old daughter, and at 52 years old I would like to understand the things I currently do not understand in order to have "all the answers" in case she should ever ask. "But, the rain wasn't made of water and the snow didn't have a place in the sun...." Thanks good people. I won't be able to spell it out for you in detail but it's a subject that's not one sided in my personal view. It's a dichotomy between poorer countries having enough to eat, and fresh water to drink, and those who oppose the advancement of farming methods and such like to enable this to happen, usually living in well off countries with adequate food supplies. I don't really like the idea of some scientist messing about with my food supply but if it means that poorer countries get enough to eat then I'm for it. After all we are supposed to be an advance race so really we should look after our fellow human beings in time of need and want. And no, I'm not a religious zealot just a member of the human race.
|
|
|
Post by steelmonkey on Feb 8, 2018 17:18:53 GMT
Plenty of sides to the issue...and no doubt in my mind that companies like Monsanto are greedy, unethical and profit-driven to the exclusion of all other considerations. I think Maddog is right...full assessment of so called progress and how science balances serving of mankind vs hastening catastrophe is a big and slow job and sometimes does fall behind during on the ground emergencies in food and water supply.
|
|
|
Post by Budding Stately Hero on Feb 12, 2018 20:49:37 GMT
Well, they say ignorance is bliss. I find this old thread very interesting and gripping. I wish it was a longer thread, because I have very little knowledge about the subject and Ian's attitudes, experience, knowledge, writings and action regarding GMO's. If somebody has the time, I would very much appreciate this matter spelled-out and spoon fed to me. If there is a good read on the subject whether it be a book on the subject or even song lyrics, I would probably read up on it. I have a two year old daughter, and at 52 years old I would like to understand the things I currently do not understand in order to have "all the answers" in case she should ever ask. "But, the rain wasn't made of water and the snow didn't have a place in the sun...." Thanks good people. I won't be able to spell it out for you in detail but it's a subject that's not one sided in my personal view. It's a dichotomy between poorer countries having enough to eat, and fresh water to drink, and those who oppose the advancement of farming methods and such like to enable this to happen, usually living in well off countries with adequate food supplies. I don't really like the idea of some scientist messing about with my food supply but if it means that poorer countries get enough to eat then I'm for it. After all we are supposed to be an advance race so really we should look after our fellow human beings in time of need and want. And no, I'm not a religious zealot just a member of the human race. Thank you. I appreciate your thoughts.
|
|
|
Post by Budding Stately Hero on Feb 12, 2018 21:05:17 GMT
Well, they say ignorance is bliss. I find this old thread very interesting and gripping. I wish it was a longer thread, because I have very little knowledge about the subject and Ian's attitudes, experience, knowledge, writings and action regarding GMO's. If somebody has the time, I would very much appreciate this matter spelled-out and spoon fed to me. If there is a good read on the subject whether it be a book on the subject or even song lyrics, I would probably read up on it. I have a two year old daughter, and at 52 years old I would like to understand the things I currently do not understand in order to have "all the answers" in case she should ever ask. "But, the rain wasn't made of water and the snow didn't have a place in the sun...." Thanks good people. I won't be able to spell it out for you in detail but it's a subject that's not one sided in my personal view. It's a dichotomy between poorer countries having enough to eat, and fresh water to drink, and those who oppose the advancement of farming methods and such like to enable this to happen, usually living in well off countries with adequate food supplies. I don't really like the idea of some scientist messing about with my food supply but if it means that poorer countries get enough to eat then I'm for it. After all we are supposed to be an advance race so really we should look after our fellow human beings in time of need and want. And no, I'm not a religious zealot just a member of the human race. See, what prompted me to reply to the post was the original poster, who said, "....Ian supports giant corporations raping the Earth, decimating farming and poisoning us....never challenges the establishment and believes anything he is told....He never challenges Monsanto who created agent Orange used in Vietnam, he never challenges war mongering politicians yet rants about people have lots of kids, and even insults them." I suppose it doesn't surprise me. Mostly all the rock musicians I have come to understand as people who pursue monetary riches to the extreme. But, I was also surprised because his lyrics are chock-full of musings about the environment. Oh well, in the end, he's just a flawed human like the rest of us.
|
|