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Post by 2old2standup2fat2try on May 8, 2009 9:40:31 GMT
You might pick the bloke that you think is the best drummer, you might prefer the style of one of them even though they might not, technically, be the best drummer, or you might pick the one that you associate the most with a particular time, or because they played on your favourite Tull album, you might consider their output outside of Jethro Tull. Hey, you might just pick the one who has the nicest smile: it's your choice. I've decided not to include Mark Parnell, does that make me a bad person? If the administrators wish to delete this poll, and create a new one including Parnell, or not including James Duncan, etc, there will be no objections from me. I apologise in advance for any other mistakes made.
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Post by steelmonkey on May 9, 2009 19:02:17 GMT
I know i am usually the biggest ian apologist on the board..promoting a kind of republican sounding 'love it or leave it' attitude about Tull...but this time I will admit that ian probably is hard to work with and get along with...I doubt he's the ogre that people make him out to be in light of the Stormwatch/A purge and the recent Giddings/Noyce dismissals....but i voted for Doane cuz he is a great drummer and to give him credit for lasting so long....maybe swallowing his pride now and then and making it his busines to remain on good terms with party leader and stay a vital and consistent part of Tull. Doane is a known trooper...playing thru pain and adding the commute from LA to England to his already staggering Tull member air mile totals....His original 'glad to be here, can't believe i drum with Tull' vibe has never diminished....of course, sorry Doane, when I get the time machine...I'm going back to 1972-1975 era Tull...with barlow on the drum stool...wanna sit next to me and watch?
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Post by TM on May 10, 2009 0:15:19 GMT
No brainer.
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Post by nonrabbit on May 10, 2009 9:20:17 GMT
The only story/example I know is the one I think I mentioned before on another Board. My ex played in a few bands and in 75/76/77 (wish I could remember!) we were all hanging about a music shop in Glasgow one Saturday afternoon inbetween gigs when who popped in but Ian and a couple of other people ( bloody MEMORY!!) this wouldn't have been unusual cause it was a cultish hanging about place for musicians and I believe he likes his walkabouts prior to gigs Our drummer walked up to Ian and said if he ever needs a drummer He was the man ! Much to his amazement he got a call and asked to come along for a couple of sessions with the band - didn't get the job however said Anderson was extremely nice went out of his way to be helpful and of course said drummer boy was gobsmacked to be playing with them ;D
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Post by admin on May 14, 2009 10:21:32 GMT
I know i am usually the biggest ian apologist on the board..promoting a kind of republican sounding 'love it or leave it' attitude about Tull...but this time I will admit that ian probably is hard to work with and get along with...I doubt he's the ogre that people make him out to be in light of the Stormwatch/A purge and the recent Giddings/Noyce dismissals....but i voted for Doane cuz he is a great drummer and to give him credit for lasting so long....maybe swallowing his pride now and then and making it his busines to remain on good terms with party leader and stay a vital and consistent part of Tull. Doane is a known trooper...playing thru pain and adding the commute from LA to England to his already staggering Tull member air mile totals....His original 'glad to be here, can't believe i drum with Tull' vibe has never diminished....of course, sorry Doane, when I get the time machine...I'm going back to 1972-1975 era Tull...with barlow on the drum stool...wanna sit next to me and watch? My vote goes to doane for exactly the same reasons, but in terms of sheer musicality I think Barrie Barlow just has the edge.
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Post by kaibailey on Nov 1, 2009 8:26:13 GMT
You know, a while back I would have went with Barrie, but Doane has done some of the most amazing drumming I've heard out of any band. He's definitely not given the attention he deserves. I think it's great Tull still has him, since he's one of the highlights to seeing them live modern day.
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Post by shindizzler on Dec 12, 2009 7:42:48 GMT
I dig Barrie for the obvious reasons but I find I don't listen to much of the output from his period. I am sort of heretical here, so bear with me, but I don't really listen to TAAB, PP, Minstrel, TOTRR much. Of those, I visit PP most, and that's not much. But, I am a huge fan of the folk stuff, and over the years found more to like in Warchild. I dig the Nightcap stuff too. For this wannabe drummer (the only instrument I played for some years, but have now nearly forgotten how), BB was the $h1t. But I could barely keep up with him.
Now, I love Doane, and agree with what has been said above. I got a chance to meet him twice and found him quite a nice fellow, gave him a CD of mine on one occasion. He is the thunder god in the band. What disappoints me is that on the whole, his period coincided with a more straightahead approach to the rhythmic part of the music. I know from concerts that he can hold his own with Barrie, but there is always something thicker and deeper in his playing that differs from the smaller sound (sonically) and the slightly jazzier feel of BB. Doane comes off in more cases as a more backbeat-oriented player with more 2B stick (fairly heavy pieces of wood) bombast, whereas BB has a more orchestral approach in many cases. Part of it has to do with the technology--BB working in a time before gated drum sounds, electronic processing or generation of sounds, before internal micing, etc. Doane, working in an era when all that stuff was de facto standard stuff, has the deeper, thuddier tones that are great for smacking the listener upside the head but not for the type of sensitivities that you find on the BB era stuff. (One other way I think about it is that in the 70s era, dry as kits sound on record, they seem more like a single instrument and the more recent approach tends to compartmentalize the sound into the constituent parts in the mix by making every piece sing to its fullest--"a band of soloists" applied to the various pieces of the drum kit, if you will.)
I know people think Gerry Conway was stiff as a brick on Broadsword, and I think that too, but he redeems himself on the Crest songs, where frankly I think he outgrooves Doane in some cases, the man who actually held the chair in the band, sort of. That said, I totally dig the Conway era stuff--the outtakes and all. I actually put most of that on before I reach for much of the Perry era stuff. I mean, most of Dot Com fails to really ignite me. I cut my teeth on my formative drumming influences when Catfish came out but can't really go near it much anymore. Ditto most of the stuff that flooded out in 1992-3. RTB has some tasty stuff but I forget it is there... Dunno.
Now about whoever programmed the drums on Under Wraps...that's the $h1t right there!
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Post by maddogfagin on Dec 12, 2009 9:25:07 GMT
Thoughtful post shindizzler and one I hope will encourage response from the drummers amongst the membership ;D I would, however, argue Mark Craney's case as being up there with the best. I've often wondered how he would have progressed had his tenure in Tull been longer. It's a great shame he's no longer with us but the memories of the A tour live on. And don't forget Clive An essential part of the Tull sound at the beginning - a perfect percussion bed for the rest of the band to play to. For my money the partnership of Clive and Glenn in the early days was one of the outstanding drum/bass collaborations of that era in any band around at that time, but then I'm biased
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Post by shindizzler on Dec 13, 2009 8:42:54 GMT
I do like the A album and do not really dislike Craney's playing. I do think it borders on too busy, particularly when you hear footage from the tour and he is interpreting Barrie's or Clive's work. He is obviously brilliant but was only what, 28 or so at that point? Still a bit untamed. He sounds like he is leading the band in a fusion-y direction, which is fine for A which tends in that direction more than any other Tull, but he sounds a bit uncertain of how to get the feel for the more restrained or nuanced stuff, particularly when I watch Slipstream and so on. He has energy, sure, and can play like a mofo, but he had not the feel that Barrie had, the straight shooting of Gerry or Doane, or the jazzy tone of Clive. Maybe it is part technological and stylistic too---his time in Tull was a period of dead sounding drums that were pretty much stripped of resonance (worse, Gerry C used single headed concert toms during his tenure, drums with lots of bark but no resonance to speak of); they needed to be smacked hard because of say, two ply heads and detuning below optimal pitch for a "rock" sound. Also, the album A has the worst, overcompressed and dull recorded sound of all of Tull's output. I read that it was in part due to a bad period in the magnetic tape industry when bad product was all that came off the lines. It is that plus the dead drum sound that was popular then. I for one am glad that passed.
Anyhow, the point is that since that period around 1980 ushered in many new ideas and options, "A" got a few whammies. Great players in all cases, but the recording is $h1t and I think that Craney's actual recorded sound may be stripping us of hearing a more dynamic version of what he actually played. But I think that he was a bit hyper for this chair. I'd not like to see him have to follow the lean and economic playing that Conway brought a couple years later.
Part of what makes Clive's playing so cool by comparison is not only that he played the notes he did, but that the technology and engineering captured his kit with less gunk in the signal chain, and he still fancied himself a guy influenced by the world of jazz and blues drummers, with ringy drums that are left full of tone because in less-amplified situations, players needed all those overtones--the ones you could later on tune out when you had a mic on every drum and were lusting for perfect separation with gates and so on. Bill Bruford told a story about how he got his characteristic bonk out of his snare by hitting rimshots all the time and exciting as much tone as he could out of his snare so he could be heard in the midst of the band in unamplified situations. Clive, a contemporary of Bruf's, probably had to meet the situation in the same way.
I think of Gerry Conway as a more direct heir to Clive. Both have rather straightforward styles, and pardoning the recorded sound of Gerry's kit in the early 80s, you can listen to his stuff on Crest or Part of the Machine or some of the more loose Broadsword outtakes, or indeed on a lot of other stuff he's done in FC or with Cat, and find his very musical playing. A lot of artists got sucked into experimenting with "too much" processing or electronics or MIDI gear in that period, and the ones who didn't had to pretend they were doing so. Some of it is embarrassingly bad, like Fairport's Gladys Leap. You could suspect that the stuff on Broadsword is stiff because the popular music of the day was starting to gain a metronomic precision that arose from sequencers and drum machines appearing in those years. Gerry grooves nicely, but I could imagine a bit of self-consciousness if he was new at this chair and playing some tunes that originated with PJ Vetesse and his sequencers--something a little off the beaten path for most players at the time, but not least of which the folkies who relied on their own rhythmic sense.
Maybe none of that made sense...
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Post by maddogfagin on Dec 13, 2009 9:17:20 GMT
I suppose it could be argued that it all comes down the era that any particular album was recorded and the external influences at the times. Certainly the case with the dreaded drum machine and it would be interesting to speculate if different drummers had played at different times i.e. if Clive had been the drummer on Broadsword for example, what that album would have sounded like. I would be interested in your thoughts shindizzler on that one
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Post by shindizzler on Dec 14, 2009 1:35:01 GMT
I think in the case of Broadsword, we might have to gauge the influence of Paul Samwell Smith, the first outsider to produce a Tull record, and one who, while having production pedigree, came from "outside the family" and was, as Ian told it, a blind pick in the phone book, essentially. For years I wondered if the drum sounds on B and B were electronic, but now I'm aware of GC playing an acoustic kit. I guess the cause for my question was the lame early digital reverb that does indeed sound a bit like nails on a chalkboard! It adds something, but as I think it is fair to say, it adds something not needed and something that just doesn't sound good. Later recordings (see another post of mine) seem to have run clear the other way, leaving the drums dry as a bone, or using wispy reverb that sounds like sonic spider web haze.
What if we were granted a remix of B and B without the early 80s digital gunk, remixed by say, Bill Bottrell who helped draw the recording world out of its love affair with electronic muck, and back to stripped back mixes? Or, what if Gerry was given the chance to relax and groove a bit more like we all know he can do, but for whatever reason, didn't do much of on that record? (He could use closed toms too so there is some resonant punch in his tone!) And what if we finally use the opportunity to leave that dreck Flying Colors off the damned album!? (We could insert Jack Frost, Jack a Lynn and a few others... Maybe even Dinosaur!) :-)
I think that GC and CB have some great groove power despite being in a band that calls on some more detailed playing. But as said before, each made their contribution at a different time in the progress of recording technology. I model my GC speculation on the Fairport stuff I have---Wood and the Wire, mainly---and hear some spectacular and nuanced playing. Even his Cat Stevens stuff breathes more than the Tull stuff in the early days. But for a decade, a lot of players were subjected to some pretty tempting toys, the prevailing stylistic trends rushed like river currents bringing people in who really had no business taking part (read the earlier comment about Gladys Leap). Tis a bummer.
Mental exercises:
Bunker plays the stuff from Crest of a Knave onward, using Perry's kit but with no internal mics... Craney plays Bunker's drums with full jazzy tone and explosive cymbals... Perry plays live drums with percussive overdubs on Under Wraps... Mattacks plays Broadsword era stuff... Duncan plays the A album with a bit more streamlined approach and less thuddy kit... Conway puts bottom heads on his toms and takes a toke to live down the feel on B and B...
All on analog tape and run through a Fairchild compressor, of course...
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Post by shindizzler on Dec 14, 2009 15:01:53 GMT
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Post by nonrabbit on Dec 15, 2009 0:10:52 GMT
The drummer in my ex's band got an audition with Tull and was on a high well for years I think I told this story on another Board and someone asked what year it was - it must have been 1977 as Tull were playing in Glasgow that day. We were all in the local musicians meet up spot aka McCormacks music shop in the city centre when in walked Ian with a couple of others. Our drummer being the cheeky chappie that drummers often are walked up to Ian and asked if he needed a drummer. It turned out that he got an audition in England a little while later however obviously never got the job! I caught up with him recently but never got the finer details on this but I intend too - he plays in a tribute band now - not Tull
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Post by conundrum on Apr 6, 2010 6:24:05 GMT
Jethro Tull has had nothing but excellent drummers. You could not be anything less and play in Tull.
However, I love both Clive and Barriemore the best. I love Doane and Doane belongs in Tull! Super nice guy too!
Clive was and is fabulous and has a style all his own. Fabulous chops too. But Barriemore took it all a step further with the addition melodic percussion. Barriemore gets my vote.
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kleynan
Journeyman
Thick as a Brick
Posts: 89
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Post by kleynan on Apr 6, 2010 11:29:32 GMT
Barry all the way
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Post by bunkerfan on Apr 19, 2010 12:18:22 GMT
Jethro Tull has had nothing but excellent drummers. You could not be anything less and play in Tull. However, I love both Clive and Barriemore the best. I love Doane and Doane belongs in Tull! Super nice guy too! Clive was and is fabulous and has a style all his own. Fabulous chops too. But Barriemore took it all a step further with the addition melodic percussion. Barriemore gets my vote. As you can tell by my forum name that Clive gets my vote, I agree with you that Tull have always had exellent drummers and Barriemore comes a close second to Clive in my opinion. I've started playing drums again after a 40 year break and if there's anyone else out there that plays I'd like to hear how you get on playing Jethro Tull stuff, as I find it rock hard! ;D
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Post by nonrabbit on Apr 20, 2010 16:08:52 GMT
The only story/example I know is the one I think I mentioned before on another Board. My ex played in a few bands and in 75/76/77 (wish I could remember!) we were all hanging about a music shop in Glasgow one Saturday afternoon inbetween gigs when who popped in but Ian and a couple of other people ( bloody MEMORY!!) this wouldn't have been unusual cause it was a cultish hanging about place for musicians and I believe he likes his walkabouts prior to gigs Our drummer walked up to Ian and said if he ever needs a drummer He was the man ! Much to his amazement he got a call and asked to come along for a couple of sessions with the band - didn't get the job however said Anderson was extremely nice went out of his way to be helpful and of course said drummer boy was gobsmacked to be playing with them ;D Further info the said drummer sent me an email a while back saying that Mel Gaynor from Simple Minds also auditioned at the same time. I will endeavour to dig up some more details on the audition. www.mel-gaynor.com/Mel_Gaynor/MEL_GAYNOR.html
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chea
Master Craftsman
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Post by chea on Jun 14, 2010 7:40:12 GMT
My answer comes a bit late, i' m sorry. We all know that Tull played in several kind of music, ( folk, blues, ecc ). Each drummer involved in Ian' s project helped a lot. I mean, for me there is not the best one among all. Maybe from a technical point of wiew Barrie can be considered the best one. It would be interesting to hear his drumming in pieces from " Dot Com " or " Roots ", for instance. I have been recently watching " Slipstream " DVD. How forget Mark Craney 's strong way of drumming ? He was very ok in that period. Jerry Conway' s did a very good job with J.T, as well...M.
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Post by futureshock on Oct 9, 2010 3:10:01 GMT
B. Barlow is my favorite Tull drummer but I picked Clive Bunker on the poll. Clive has a style that reminds me of great jazz drumming but with lots more attack and sense of a powerful rhythm. Tull's early years were perhaps more open in sound and Clive had more audio space to work in than the later drummers. Doane has done a lot of great work with Tull. Barlow has a particular compositional style that I still find unique and highly absorbing as an instrumental lead instead of being purely a rhythm support instrument. It's like he thinks like a percussion orchestra, not a drummer. Great percussionists like Trilok Gurtu and Hossam Ramzy are out there too, but that's getting far away from rock or northern folk.
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Post by maddogfagin on Oct 9, 2010 8:14:22 GMT
It would be very interesting to know if any Tull drummers were self taught or had professional tuition of some sort. Clive was, imo, an excellent drummer and suited the early Tull sound a treat. Barry had the ability to "add" to the music and wasn't just the guy at the back who kept time.
When you think of other bands, you realise how fortunate IA was to have such a wealth of talent, through the years, sitting on the drum stool.
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Post by bunkerfan on Oct 9, 2010 15:45:17 GMT
It would be very interesting to know if any Tull drummers were self taught or had professional tuition of some sort. Clive was, imo, an excellent drummer and suited the early Tull sound a treat. Barry had the ability to "add" to the music and wasn't just the guy at the back who kept time. When you think of other bands, you realise how fortunate IA was to have such a wealth of talent, through the years, sitting on the drum stool. I think most drummers are more or less self taught, in my case I was helped with the basics while I was a member of The Church Lads Brigade. I got to grips with playing on a drum kit from watching and learning from other drummers. It sounds like Clive Bunker was self taught when I read this quote from him talking about his friends when he was a kid. he remembers. “One of them turned up with a guitar and then another one of them turned up with a guitar, and then it got round to, ‘Ooh, let’s form a band!’ They said, ‘You can be the drummer,’ and that’s how it happened really. I just started bashing around on an old tin and a couple of knitting needles, and then my parents bought me a drum kit.” Clive Bunker has some advice for drummers who are just starting out. “I think it’s a good idea to go and have a few lessons, but just enough to sort of know what you’re doing. Then, if you’re lucky enough to be in a band, forget about it for a bit and go out and play with the band. Learn from your mistakes, and then once you’ve got through doing it live for a while, then, yes, go back and learn how to play it properly, because then you can pull on both sides of it.
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